First Ground Up Driverless Vehicle To Be On Road in 2015

Discussion in 'Tech Talk - Gadgets, Gizmos and Technology' started by Drucifer, Dec 23, 2014.

  1. Tom Robertson

    Tom Robertson Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    Your logic is backward. Driving recklessly with a Corvette's power is a pro-active process. You are controlling the action to abuse the rules.

    AP is a passive condition. You can activate it and go to sleep. There is no need for conscious, active decision to drive recklessly by using AP.

    Peace,
    Tom
     
  2. Tom Robertson

    Tom Robertson Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    There is another difference here. Driving isn't natural but the car is engineered to within human capacities. The seat can be set so your arms reach the steering wheel. The mechanics are arranged so a normal person using normal strength can turn the wheel.

    What I am saying is the safety of AP relies on something that is not within normal human capability. To be attentive while watching paint dry. Thus the feature is reckless and negligently designed.

    How few people pay attention now, when they are actively engaged? Do you think they will be more attentive when they aren't so actively engaged in the driving?

    Peace,
    Tom
     
  3. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    How about the guy that has a heart attack? Would you consider it a safety feature then? Or how about, and this is a huge one, making sure the car leaves enough distance between vehicles to stop quickly if needed and it's ability to hit the breaks or swerve in reaction much faster than an average human to avoid a sudden problem that a human doesn't see coming?

    And I'm very much talking about cruise control. That's in the exact same realm as auto pilot. The latest dynamic cruise controls are much more safety featured than the original cruise control too..
     
  4. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    Choosing to not pay attention is not proactively doing something you aren't supposed to do? Since when?
     
  5. Tom Robertson

    Tom Robertson Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    "Choosing to not pay attention?" How about falling asleep. That isn't choosing, that is natural. :)

    The proactive is to pay attention. The passive is to stop paying attention. That is the difference between driving a corvette (active) vs. letting the corvette sit (passive.)

    Peace,
    Tom
     
  6. Tom Robertson

    Tom Robertson Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    When was the last time cruise control alerted you to take over? :)

    Peace,
    Tom
     
  7. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    I really don't get how paying attention to what the car is doing while on auto pilot is like watching paint dry. You have never been in a car with a back seat driver I guess. Someone who isn't even driving but warns you about everything on the road. I just don't by into this argument of paint drying. Constant movement in front of you along the road is not paint drying.



    Actually on an aside... but still a bit on topic, this is pretty funny. My cousins kids found it because they say she is her husbands little helper... she agrees too...

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ynRWWy2sWyQ
     
  8. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    Last year. I was in a dynamic crush control car. It disengaged because a semi pulled out in front of me from the right line while Driving down a freeway. It couldn't guarantee spacing. It's only happened the once but I was paying attention as I'm supposed to even though the car is driving itself speed wise. Wasn't an issue for me. It did what i felt it should have.
     
  9. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    If you are that tired you are supposed to pull over and stop. No different than if your car isn't self driving. You know if you are to tired to drive without auto pilot. That shouldn't change with it on either sense you are told You must still pay attention. Again that's the driver choosing to be stupid and drive when they shouldn't be on the road at all and know it. Sleepiness doesn't just come Out of nowhere.
     
  10. dennisj00

    dennisj00 Hall Of Fame

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    Again, NO experience with AP. I invite you guys to go and take a test drive, it's free. There are many warnings / alerts to keep your hands on the wheel and probably keep you more alert than any conventional cruise control.

    Try it before you publish your opinions. Opinions are cheap.
     
  11. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Have you been reading? A "correctly operating" Tesla would detect that the driver was no longer controlling the vehicle (hand detected on the steering wheel) give a warning to the driver and then stop driving - leaving the car with no driver, human or automatic. Traveling in whatever direction and speed it was traveling in until it crashes.

    If the vehicle was programmed to activate hazard lights and make a safe lane change to the shoulder then stop without causing an accident perhaps one could call it a safety feature. But that is not what the Tesla is programmed to do. The Tesla gives up and lets the car crash. Perhaps a few seconds later than if auto pilot were off, but a crash is a crash. Is that your idea of safe?


    Cruise control is not auto pilot. One must still maintain lane control oneself. Without Tesla style auto pilot the best one can hope for is working lane drift detection. Speed controls that prevent following too close and slow the vehicle to the proper following distance are relatively new.

    The more driving one takes out of the hands of the driver the less the driver has to pay attention to the road.
     
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  12. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    This is getting like the 4K debates. Not having a 4K set and arguing about the positive and negative aspects of the 4Ks has become a frequent annoyance, much like your experiences with your new Tesla and this thread. I understand your frustration. Your experiences with the Tesla will be valued. Keep on truckin'.

    Rich
     
  13. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    Hmm. That's rather unsettling...

    Rich
     
  14. dennisj00

    dennisj00 Hall Of Fame

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    Interesting comments from Clark Howard, the usually frugal financial (?) advisor from Atlanta. . . http://www.clark.com/clarks-take-tesla-autopilot

    He has over a year experience with AP and like me, very interested in participating in the development.

    I've had my Model S for 26 hours and WOW, what a car. Another 50 miles or so on cruise and AP. I still say it's like getting use to someone in the drivers seat as a passenger. I never like being in the passenger seat with most any driver, but after a while I get use to their technique.

    It's absolutely the safest car I've ever owned (or the bank has owned!)
     
  15. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    I do not know what you have owned before ... but even without autodrive cars are getting safer each year. (The driver death rate for all 2011-2010-2009 model year vehicles is 28 per million miles. The driver death rate for all 2008-2007-2006 model year vehicles is 48 per million miles. [source])
     
  16. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    The preliminary report for the fatal Florida crash:
    View attachment HWY16FH018-Preliminary-Report.pdf
    http://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Pages/HWY16FH018-preliminary.aspx

    "Tesla system performance data downloaded from the car indicated that vehicle speed just prior to impact was 74 mph. System performance data also revealed that the driver was operating the car using the advanced driver assistance features Traffic-Aware Cruise Control and Autosteer lane keeping assistance. The car was also equipped with automatic emergency braking that is designed to automatically apply the brakes to reduce the severity of or assist in avoiding frontal collisions."

    The highway was posted 65 MPH.

    "All aspects of the crash remain under investigation. The Florida Highway Patrol and Tesla Motors are parties to the ongoing investigation."


    GoogleMaps link for the intersection. It looks like there is a hill crest off to the west from where the Tesla approached.
    https://www.google.com/maps/place/US-27+ALT,+Williston,+FL+32696/@29.4105962,-82.5397624,3a,60y,304h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4dT1SiBOgr7L9DhfmfHADw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x88e925b43927a579:0x938a757ee1ceaf59!8m2!3d29.4055975!4d-82.5219704
     
  17. trh

    trh This Space for Sale

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    Thanks for posting that. Now we at least have the speed at impact.
     
  18. dennisj00

    dennisj00 Hall Of Fame

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    So your point is?? Currently on 130 million miles - 1 death? And it's 2016 not 2008-2006.
     
  19. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    The point is (overall) a 2011 car is safer than a 2008 car. I stated my point in my post ... cars get safer every year. (Perhaps knee jerk reactions are easier than reading the posts you respond to?)

    Numbers for newer model years will be released when they are statistically significant. The numbers Tesla has released are not yet statistically significant. (The numbers from 2011 were based on 62.9 million registered vehicle years. The numbers from 2008 were based on 65 million registered vehicle years.)
     
  20. dennisj00

    dennisj00 Hall Of Fame

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    Post again when you can compare 130 MILLION miles under AP.
     

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