Fox Regional Sports being dropped by YouTube TV

Discussion in 'Internet Streaming Services' started by gio12, Sep 29, 2020.

  1. compnurd

    compnurd Hall Of Fame

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    I would disagree with that first statement entirely. I and a lot of others feel Directv is still a tad sharper then there streaming. And as someone who has had both I would confirm that And the directv app also has not streamed at 360p in quite a long time. PQ on the app is just as good as the ATT app
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2020
  2. mjwagner

    mjwagner Icon

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    YTTV streaming quality is very good. It’s been years since I ditched D so can’t compare currently but YTTV has most (I haven’t checked them all so can’t say all) cable channels now in 1920x1080 60 fps. Many (again I haven’t checked them all) of the broadcast channels are now also in 1920x1080 60 fps, I think only not depending on the feed that YTTV is getting. Bit rates vary but seem to be very good as well.
     
  3. compnurd

    compnurd Hall Of Fame

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    YTTV does have good quality. However ATT TV is still known for having higher bitrates I could care less the resolution they are broadcasting in. The bitrate is the meat of the picture
     
  4. mjwagner

    mjwagner Icon

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    Dunno, maybe ATT TV is better, too many negatives about the service for me, for me to want to try it, but I’m using large high end displays (LGOLED65B7A and a Optoma UHZ65 4k HDR laser projector) and I find the picture quality of YTTV excellent, IMO. I suppose that’s all that’s important...
     
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  5. lparsons21

    lparsons21 Hall Of Fame

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    I’ve had YTTV and now have ATT TV, got to give a slight nod to ATT TV though it isn’t a huge difference and certainly not enough to make it a deciding factor.
     
  6. espaeth

    espaeth AllStar

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    If your top priority is video quality, I'd absolutely rank ATT TV streaming over YoutubeTV. For the 1080i channels in particular, the processing that ATT TV does leaves no combing artifacts from deinterlacing into 1080p. The same can't be said for YoutubeTV.

    ATT TV is basically DIRECTV over the Internet with better video quality and a lower functionality DVR. It's tricky to put specific numbers behind it because DIRECTV uses variable compression for their satellite feeds, but when I look at packet captures I gathered from Ethernet MRV off my old HR44 (Feb 2019 when I still had the service) and compare them to bitrates with ATT TV (Feb 2019, and also Aug 2020 when I checked again), the streaming product had a consistently higher bitrate.

    What I personally find compelling about YoutubeTV is that it's a different spin on how to organize network content. Pick your shows, and it automatically builds a Netflix-like catalog of seasons and episodes of anything you want to watch. If you want a traditional TV experience, you'll hate that. If you're accustomed to catalog services like Prime Video, Netflix, or Hulu then it starts to fit into that approach better. They're also tapping into existing metadata to offer things no other TV service has done so far like indexing your recordings with key plays and highlights in near real time.

    That said, I almost never launch YTTV. The only thing I'm watching on it now is F1 Racing on the weekend. I watched the NHL playoffs using the NHL app so I could watch the Canadian broadcasts and have video processing that is artifact and stutter free. I watched the Tour de France on NBC Sports Gold to have the entire race going commercial free while I was working. For network TV shows we watch them all commercial free on Hulu, CBS:AA, Disney+ (Nat Geo), HBO Max, or Peacock. I watch PBS programming in the PBS app. If I want to watch live local channels, I have the Channels app on the Apple TVs and a HD Homerun setup that gets all our local channels.

    That's why the ATT box is a poor fit for me personally - it's a box tailored to a service I would use the least often. 90% of our watch time is in commercial free catalog content viewing.
     
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  7. compnurd

    compnurd Hall Of Fame

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    There is 3 things ATT TV needs IMO to be equal to its cousin. And I know 1 of these isn’t coming anytime soon.

    NFL Network
    4K Live channels
    Series Recordings Manager for the DVR
     
  8. NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, NFL Network probably isn't gonna happen until the larger relationship between AT&T and the NFL regarding NFL Sunday Ticket gets settled.

    But I did think we'd see 4K live channels by now on AT&T TV, as the previous CEO mentioned 4K content on a few different occasions, and of course the box supports it. (Or, more specifically, I figured we'd see certain HD channels auto-switch to 4K or 4K HDR for certain programs, such as live sports, and then auto-switch back to HD afterward.) Should be easy for AT&T to stream live 4K and 4K HDR. Heck, the much smaller Fubo TV does a lot of it.

    As for a series recording manager, yeah, that's one of the things that's keeping me from moving my elderly parents onto AT&T TV. I'm afraid they'd be a little lost without that. Shouldn't be a difficult feature to add but who knows, maybe AT&T doesn't think it's necessary.
     
  9. ThaPhenom

    ThaPhenom Mentor

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    Do any of the streaming providers provide an out of market RSN Sports Pack? Outside of that, do any providers have it other than DirecTV?
     
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  10. compnurd

    compnurd Hall Of Fame

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    No and No
     
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  11. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    People talking about bitrates... I have seen bitrates as high as 70Mbps on my YouTube TV feed with the Nerd-stats enabled. That surprised me. I didn't think anything approached that on streaming, certainly not for HD... I haven't heard people mention that even for 4K streaming. I'll add, that is just when I've been watching Live channels. The DVR stuff or On Demand stuff doesn't usually get that high for me whenever I check.
     
  12. espaeth

    espaeth AllStar

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    Stats for nerds doesn't show the active stream bitrate, unfortunately. You actually have to pull the video stream headers to get the defined peak bitrate, and you can use network captures or browser / emulator developer tools to observe the average bitrate. Stats for nerds shows the player's estimation for throughput based on download rates on each video segment that the client is fetching. This is useful information for support teams if you open a ticket, because it would tend to suggest the best quality the client should be able to achieve.

    Streaming starts with presenting a manifest of available "streams" (streaming isn't really streaming. It's just downloading 2-6 second clips of video/audio and playing them back gapless), usually in M3U format. This will have a "menu" of playlists at different resolutions and with different audio qualities that have links to the actual video and audio files. Each stream option is tagged with a bandwidth rate that represents the minimum download rate the client needs to achieve to be able to play back that collection of files without interruption. The video player is constantly evaluating the performance of the video segment downloads as it fills the buffer, and will either pick a higher or lower bitrate option to keep filling the buffer if network conditions change.

    Here's what that "menu" looked like for DTVN a few years ago: Paste2.org - Viewing Paste BtOh8Uk2

    This is for Game of Thrones via Amazon Prime channels, where they had a stream available for bandwidth exceeding 15mbps that was better than even HBO Go/NOW's direct streams: Paste2.org - Viewing Paste f5cvYXtp
     
  13. NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    This is a bit tangential, but have you streamed anything via the HBO Max app? HBO has definitely upper their bitrates, at least for some stuff, versus what they used to do in the old Go/Now apps. (And that's not just my eyes talking, one of the top guys at HBO Max said as much in an interview I read back in the summer.)

    Watching via my Apple TV 4K box (which does a good job upscaling high-quality HD), there have been several times while watching recent HBO Originals like Perry Mason and The Third Day where I thought it looked just as good as 4K from Netflix, Prime Video or Hulu. That said, I do want actual 4K -- and HDR! -- from HBO Max. It's supposedly coming...
     
  14. espaeth

    espaeth AllStar

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    I have, and I've noticed the same thing.

    I just fired up XCode and it looks like bitrates are indeed up from the HBO Go/NOW days. I can't see the main manifest file for some reason (I'll do a packet capture later, I guess), but I am able to pull the m3u8s for each stream that gets picked up. Here's the top bitrate from Last Week Tonight as of 10/22/2020:

    Code:
    http://hls3.pro11.akm.cdn.hbomax.com/videos/PRO11/e5/gov2/hbo/promo/PROM997474/v1/video/23.98p/r0/vid10/prog_index.m3u8
    #EXTM3U
    #EXT-X-VERSION:3
    ## Created with Unified Streaming Platform(version=1.9.5)
    #EXT-X-MEDIA-SEQUENCE:0
    #EXT-X-PLAYLIST-TYPE:VOD
    #EXT-X-INDEPENDENT-SEGMENTS
    #EXT-X-TARGETDURATION:6
    #EXTINF:6.006, no desc
    v10_0.ts
    #EXTINF:6.006, no desc
    v10_1.ts
    #EXTINF:6.006, no desc
    v10_2.ts
    #EXTINF:6.006, no desc
    v10_3.ts
    #EXTINF:6.006, no desc
    v10_4.ts
    #EXTINF:1.001, no desc
    v10_5.ts
    #EXT-X-ENDLIST
    #USP-X-MEDIA:BANDWIDTH=10995000,AVERAGE-BANDWIDTH=8432000,TYPE=VIDEO,GROUP-ID="video_23.98_10",NAME="video",AUTOSELECT=YES,CODECS="avc1.640028",RESOLUTION=1920x1080,FRAME-RATE=23.976
    So nearly 11mbps as a peak bitrate is indeed a pretty substantial upgrade under HBO Max.
     
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