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Genie with Denon Amp

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by bonscott, Oct 19, 2013.

  1. MysteryMan

    MysteryMan Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    Electronic signals can be broadcast in two ways: electromagnetic signals travel over wire and light wave travel over fiber optical cables. A complex video signal can travel over either, depending on how it is modulated or mixed in the system that connects to the fiber or cable. Signals over wire can be digital or analog, but signals over fiber can only be digital. Digital pulses carry voice, video, or data information, or any combination of the three, depending on how pulses are arranged for the system.
     
  2. CCarncross

    CCarncross Hall Of Fame

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    What did you upgrade from? I have an HR20, and an HR22 going through my Denon AVR-3312 via HDMI and I get volume, and everything on-screen. My previous model '09 model did not pass the on-screen display via HDMI, only component or composite. What model number is your Denon?
     
  3. Laxguy

    Laxguy Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense.

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    Samsung 58" Plasma, PN58B650 [Living Room], and Denon 1613, HR44-200.
     
  4. CCarncross

    CCarncross Hall Of Fame

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    The way you apparently have it hooked up you get zero on-screen info from the Denon....if you are watching tv from the dvr via a direct HDMI connection, there is no way for the Denon's on-screen display to show up without you changing inputs on the tv. And as others have stated, you lose the DD5.1 sound which is 50% of the whole HT experience at home.
     
  5. Laxguy

    Laxguy Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense.

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    Looks like I will have to hook it back up that way and take pictures. When I had it set (via menu settings on the AVR) that way, I didn't think it was so extraordinary, but there are a lot of disbelievers here! I don't see why it'd be so hard for volume info to be sent back to the TV via the audio optical.
     
  6. Laxguy

    Laxguy Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense.

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    Maybe I just have wooden ears when it comes to TV sound! But I am sure I am not losing anywhere near half of the useful audio output.
    In fact, right now, I have just L+R speakers hooked up. This Denon has Audessey (sp?) but I haven't changed it since I moved and did have the center channel.
     
  7. JerryMeeker

    JerryMeeker Legend

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    Where do you get the information that Denon AVR's are notorious for handshake issues? I have owned several Denon AVR's, and have used them with DTV DVR's since the first DVR (HR-10). I have never had any HDMI issues. I participate in several Denon threads on AVS, and there is no recurring theme regarding HDMI issues. Please do not make claims like this without supporting evidence.

    As far as the OP's issue, make sure "Video Convert" is On in the AVR to view on-screen graphics like the volume control. It has nothing to do with up-scaling, native mode on the DVR, or anything else. Of course, this only works if the DVR HDMI is connected to the AVR. If the DVR is connected to the TV, of course you don't get on-screen displays.
     
  8. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    Stereo doesn't give you a center channel. That has to be synthesized by the AVR and that's certainly not what the program producers intended. Modern programming is encoded for Dolby Digital 5.1 and you're trying to use Dolby Pro Logic (multiplexed analog stereo; 1976 movie theater surround) or some workalike that isn't actually present in the encoding.
     
  9. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    Do a Google search for "Denon HDMI handshake issues". The results are very similar to the search for Samsung HDMI handshake issues.
     
  10. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    It is impossible with conventional optical audio configurations because there's no emitter on the AVR end. Only sources have the emitters necessary to send a digital signal.

    If you look at the optical output of a source device, you'll see a red glow behind the shutters. If you look at an optical input of a device, there's no glow.

    By the same token, if there's no detector on the source device, it has "wooden ears" to anything coming back on the light pipe.
     
  11. texasbrit

    texasbrit Well-Known Member

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    You only have to do a web search to find this. When anyone complains about HDMI handshake issues through an A/V receiver, the first question is always "do you have a Denon" (or an Onkyo since they are made by the same company). Many people report that their DirecTV receiver ( or Dish, or cable) works fine when connected to the TV, but has handshake issues when going through their DVR. My neighbor at my last house gave up on his Denon and bought a Pioneer instead, and his HDMI handshake issues went away.
    Of course there are thousands of people who have no problems at all. You'll also find reports of the same problems with other A/V receivers, but nowhere near the same extent. For example, I am not sure I have ever seen a post about this problem with Sony A/V receivers.
     
  12. FHSPSU67

    FHSPSU67 CE'er & Retired Engineer DBSTalk Club

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    To my knowledge and on-line searches Denon and Onkyo are not made by the same company. Been following this thread since I have a Denon AVR-1611 and have no handshaking issues EXCEPT for a workaround sometimes needed for 3D.
     
  13. MysteryMan

    MysteryMan Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    You are correct. D & M Holdings is the parent of Boston Acoustics, Denon, and Marantz.
     
  14. texasbrit

    texasbrit Well-Known Member

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    According to this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denon Denon and Onkyo merged as far back as 1939... Although they are now legally separate companies .I believe that the two brands still share some electronics, including the HDMI chipset/boards, i.e they use the same subcontractors for many of the modules (typical of Japanese manufacturers) But I might be wrong.
     
  15. FHSPSU67

    FHSPSU67 CE'er & Retired Engineer DBSTalk Club

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  16. Laxguy

    Laxguy Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense.

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    Ho-boy. Have the photo, can't seem to attach it. Or put it into the "My Media" area. Do all photos now have to be uploaded elsewhere and linked?

    And in changing settings, I managed to bork HDMI handshake wrt protected content! Can't view any of the movies from the protected channels........
     
  17. bonscott

    bonscott AllStar

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    I narrowed the problem down tp 1080i, 480i vs 720p. When on a channel with 480 or 1080i the denon onscreen guide was working. When i changed to 720p channel it would not. i unchecked the 720p box in settings on the genie and it works. I had a HR20 and HR24 before and did not have this problem .
     
  18. texasbrit

    texasbrit Well-Known Member

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    I was obviously wrong.
    Just a couple of other points.
    In almost every case, connecting the DirecTV box directly to the TV worked fine, no HDMI issues.
    In most cases, unchecking all resolutions except 1080i/p solved the problem also.
    Sometimes, only certain models of DirecTV/cable boxes seemed to have the problem, showing that there were differences in the boxes (different manufacturers, different chipsets).
    There was a theory that the issue was because the Denon HDMI implementation did not allow for the variables which the HDMI spec allows, or was not backward compatible with earlier versions of HDMI (which is required under the spec).
    Note that there have been a number of firmware upgrades to various Denon boxes some of which seemed to correct the issue.

    As far as TVs are concerned, most of the problems were with Sony and Samsung. Some Sony TVs required the Tv and the source (DirecTV/cable box) to be powered up in a certain order. Most of those TVs had the problem fixed by a new firmware release.
    Samsung had many reported problems, caused mainly by the fact that older Samsung TVs would not support 480i/p resolution over HDMI. This was in the user manual, but hidden in the fine print of the connection specs - if the user had read the manual, MAYBE they would have found it, but it was the sort of thing that should have been in large print somewhere. Even Samsung support did not understand this was the issue. As far as I know, all recent Samsung TVs support all resolutions over HDMI.

    The whole implementation of HDMI has IMHO been a mess. Not enough detail in the specs, no standardized testing (so no way of showing that an implementation was spec-compliant), and designed by computer people who had no real experience of TV/receiver technology.
     
  19. Laxguy

    Laxguy Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense.

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    Don't love quoting myself, but update: Protected content all available after turning off all devices and back on.

    But I really need guidance on posting pictures- either the method has changed, or the GUI, or I am going blind......
     
  20. FHSPSU67

    FHSPSU67 CE'er & Retired Engineer DBSTalk Club

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    Hit the "More Reply Options" button to th right of "Post" and then "attach file".
     

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