Getting the EPG on our local Fox/MYTV

Discussion in 'General DISH™ Discussion' started by mwdxer, Jan 21, 2019.

  1. mwdxer

    mwdxer Well-Known Member

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    I don't know if the Dish tech's still read this, but our local translator splits KPTV-12-Fox and KPDX-49-MyTV (No sub channels), but we do not have the EPG on the vip211k receiver. Anyway to get Dish to add those? I can understand some of the diginets with no EPG, but the main nets?
    Portlands KPTV/KPDX (Astoria OR) (ch 21), as well as the rest of their translators in OR, they are all that way. Both in 720p,. but again they do not run the diginets from either. The OTA guide does list the next program, but not on the Dish receiver. Thanks.
     
  2. skihoodoo

    skihoodoo AllStar

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    Pershing...
    i am a former Albany resident the local translator there K20DD was also that way but i never had the guide issue you mention both showed guide info.
    i have tried in both that area and my new home market to get guide info added for subs no luck at all i have talked to people in the office of the president.
     
  3. mwdxer

    mwdxer Well-Known Member

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    In the beginning we had the KPTV/KPDX mux and had only the guide for KPTV. Then a part at the translator location went bad, so they had to just use the regular KPTV mux (12.1 KPTV/12.2 Cozi/12.3 Laff. I had the OTA guide for KPTV and COZI, but not Laff, even though Dish carries it. I liked having Cozi, but several months back they got the new part and we went back to KPTV/KPDX. This time no guide info for either. The OTA guide is there, for the next program, but no guide info from Dish on the 211k. I have no idea if I should contact Dish or KPTV (Merridith). But it would be nice to have the guide for the two.
     
  4. KyL416

    KyL416 Hall Of Fame

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    Dish uses the station's TSID to do the guide data matching. So translators that do not have the TSID of their parent station will not match. i.e. that translator that only carries the primary channels of two different stations can't have the TSID of either station as it isn't rebroadcasting the full ATSC signal of either station. If you want details and explanation about what a TSID is, how Dish uses it, and how ATSC signals can only have one TSID, check the later posts in the Dish OTA EPG issues thread since the TSID issue became more prevalent once spectrum sharing started.

    Also, the FCC doesn't list TSIDs for translators since in most cases translators are rebroadcasting the entire ATSC signal of their parent station, including their TSID. So even if Dish wanted to make seperate OTA records for it and any other translators that aren't simply rebroadcasting the full ATSC signal of another station, they have nothing to reference. Stations like that are likely using one of the default TSID values like 0x1 or 0xffff, so they wouldn't have a unique TSID for Dish's purposes anyway.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2019
  5. mwdxer

    mwdxer Well-Known Member

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    The interesting thing is that before the KPTV/KPDX mux, there was a guide for KPTV. Now there isn't.Also the other translators for KATU/KOIN/KGW/KOPB all have the EPG. Both KPTV and KPDX does have the regular OTA guide too.
     
  6. skihoodoo

    skihoodoo AllStar

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    Pershing...
    you got guide info for a channel i didn't cozi tv did not have any guide info for me when it was shown for awhile when the equipment failed for k20dd
     
  7. KyL416

    KyL416 Hall Of Fame

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    That's because once they started muxing together with KPDX it was no longer just a straight up rebroadcast of KPTV's ATSC signal, so the translator couldn't use KPTV's FCC assigned unique TSID anymore.

    The rest of the translators are straight up rebroadcasts, so they pass the same TSID as their parent stations.

    If you want more details on what a TSID is and how they work in relation to Dish's OTA mappings, go look at the last few pages in that thread I linked. But long story short, translators are not assigned unique TSIDs for the reasons explained above, so for translators like this that are not straight up rebroadcasting the full ATSC signal of a parent station, there's no officially assigned TSID for Dish to reference to give it guide data. They would have to create a seperate OTA record for the TSID value used by translator, but that would just result in everyone across the country who has a translator or LD station also using one of the default TSID values seeing KPTV's guide data.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2019
  8. mwdxer

    mwdxer Well-Known Member

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  9. zippyfrog

    zippyfrog Mentor

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    Kyle - I couldn't find the answer in the previous posts you linked. But can you clarify why the subchannels can have different EPG on the same frequency? For example, here in Chicago, FOX (32-1) and the CW (50-1) last June moved to being on the same frequency, and now 50-1 has all the 32-1 programming. But our NBC 5-1 has a subchannel of Cozi, 5-2, sharing the same frequency and it can differentiate the EPG's. Why can't 32-1 and 50-1 be differentiated?
     
  10. KyL416

    KyL416 Hall Of Fame

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    Because with spectrum sharing the "guest" station now has the TSID of the "host" station and Dish didn't update their TSID mappings. The FCC's database also doesn't reflect this, so it's going to take a lot of manual work to properly fix.

    For some reason the matching is being made to the wrong -1 channel. I don't have a big enough sample though to figure out if this is with all shared stations, specific cases where the "guest" station has a higher major number than the "host" station, or something even deeper like the order of their internal program_ids in the TVCT table in their PSIP data. (i.e. some of the NBC O&O's that shared with their sister Telemundo O&O gave the guest station program_id 1 for Telemundo and 2 for Exitos, while the host station has program_id 3 for NBC and 4 for Cozi and vice/versa)
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2019
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  11. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Subchannels and channel sharing are different challenges. With a subchannel both the main station and their subchannels share a TSID (transport stream ID) and the EPG data has a flag matching the TSID and sub channel to a particular guide entry. TSID 0x03E9, Subchannel 01 is WMAQ, TSID 0x03E9, Subchannel 02 is WMAQ2. 0x03E9-01 is mapped on channels 6314 and 8492 in DISH's EPG. 0x03E9-02 is mapped on channel 14648 (one of the EPG only channels). Any station transmitting TSID 0x03E9 would get the guide data for WMAQ's 01 and 02.

    DISH has channels 6315 and 8493 mapped as 0x03F5-01 (WFLD) and channels 6318 and 8495 mapped as 0x0459-01 (WPWR). Apparently the OTA is using the WFLD TSID which means every -01 sub channel on that channel is mapping to WFLD. This would affect EVERY shared station in the country where the subchannels are duplicated.

    I assume that the WFLD/WPWR feed has different master channels for each of the subchannels ... which makes regular TV tuners work and puts WPWR's content on your receiver as 50-01.

    DISH is transmitting the master channel number in another field of EPG data. It is just a matter of re-writing the EPG portion of that software to use that data.
    Here are the relevant fields (other fields redacted):
    wfld-wpwr.png

    if there is no overlap for the subchannels (for example, if WPWR started transmitting as 50-3 instead of 50-1) matching the wrong data would be fixed. However DISH would still need to change the TSID and subchannel number on the WPWR channels to match reality.

    (Please note that the data shown above is based on years of observing the unencrypted data feeds sent via satellite by DISH. The descriptor names shown were generated by me and are not part of the data received.)
     
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  12. mwdxer

    mwdxer Well-Known Member

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    Since Merridith does this thing in the rural parts of Oregon, giving us only KPTV-FOX/KPDX-MYTV and not their diginets, it is unique. The OTA data is there for their guide. There is an app on Roku that has a guide, called "What's On" and they I can get a weekly guide for any channel. I use that for 12/49 now.
     
  13. zippyfrog

    zippyfrog Mentor

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    Kyle/James - those are two excellent posts. Thanks for sharing that info.
     
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