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Goodbye IRS?

Discussion in 'The OT' started by Richard King, Aug 2, 2004.

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  1. Aug 5, 2004 #141 of 175
    Bogy

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    There is a difference between the money borrowed to purchase a house and most other purchases. The house will build equity, most of the other stuff you mentioned, plus much credit card spending will not. Unless you defer all maintenance on your house and let it fall apart, when it is paid off it should be worth at least as much, if not more, than you paid for it. Your car, boat, motorhome, jet ski, etc. will very possibly be about shot by the time you get them paid for. Much of our federal spending is much more like buying a jet ski on time, rather than a house.

    Unless you are off on your statement about how much debt you are carrying, if you own a $105k home, which is four times your annual income, if you have an annual income of $25k and you have a motorhome, boat, etc. that you are making payments on, I don't think it will be long before you head to bankruptcy court. :D
     
  2. Aug 5, 2004 #142 of 175
    RichW

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    You also wouldn't pay 40% of your income to protect your home, nor would you spend it on a plan to burn down your neighbors house first because you fear one day he might do the same to you.
     
  3. Aug 5, 2004 #143 of 175
    Richard King

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    I am sure this will come as quite a surprise to those, both inside and outside the borders of the US, that hold T Bonds and Notes. Wow will they be unhappy.
    The government pays no where near 8 or 9% or 10% on the Federal Deficit. If it did I would sell everything and be standing in line to loan them some money.
    But, didn't you stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night?
    What's that mean?
     
  4. Aug 5, 2004 #144 of 175
    Danny R

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    You also wouldn't pay 40% of your income to protect your home, nor would you spend it on a plan to burn down your neighbors house first because you fear one day he might do the same to you.

    I did see my neighbor buying some Duncan Hines "yellow cake" mix. Should I be worried?
     
  5. Aug 5, 2004 #145 of 175
    Richard King

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    Only if you see him go into the local "pipe" shop.
     
  6. Aug 5, 2004 #146 of 175
    SAEMike

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    I said almost, but that might be a little off. My income is a little weird because I do a lot of contract labor on top of an hourly job to pay the bills, and soon a small business will be added to the mix.

    I'm not going to be headed to bankruptcy court, because when things get a little tight, I do what the government should do, cut costs in other areas.
     
  7. Aug 5, 2004 #147 of 175
    Bogy

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    And again the question is, where do you suggest the cuts come from? Interest payments on our debt?
     
  8. Aug 5, 2004 #148 of 175
    Danny R

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    where do you suggest the cuts come from?

    I believe he suggested totally gutting welfare.
     
  9. Aug 6, 2004 #149 of 175
    SimpleSimon

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    If he didn't, then I did, or am now.
     
  10. Aug 6, 2004 #150 of 175
    Danny R

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    I'm interested in your ideas of how you think eliminating welfare would work. Are you suggesting transfering it entirely to the states, or privatizing it, or not having any plan whatsoever for security for the poor?

    Seriously, enlighten me. You might win over a convert.
     
  11. Aug 6, 2004 #151 of 175
    SimpleSimon

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    First pass moves it entirely to the state level - I'm always in favor of minimizing the amount of money that passes through the Feds, just to cut the overhead. Cross-state protection has to be place - just like for unemployment insurance.

    Privitization is a possibility - again just because government is rarely the most efficient way to get something done. Road construction is a good example. For some reason, private companies get it done for less than county/state road crews.

    A form of workfare and transition must be implemented. Permanent welfare - especially when more kids equals more money - just encourages abuse. I don't know how to do that "right", but I'm confident a solution can be found. Being "on the dole" has to be made less desirable than alternatives. Just blueskying here - maybe a requirement to receive payment is having to live in welfare barracks??? Sounds crazy to me, but WTF.
     
  12. Aug 6, 2004 #152 of 175
    SAEMike

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    I suggest we do, what I suggest many people do with their children, tough love. Here is your leg up, we are going to help you pay for an apartment and some food (Not Doritos, Twinkies and cheesey poofs, good wholesome inexpensive food) You will also recieve on the job training, and in no less than three years you will have to support yourself.

    I would reform adoption laws to eliminate the red tape involved with adoptions so that parents that wanted to adopt children (gay couples included), could do so. I would also offer huge tax incentives to couples willing to take older children into their homes. Then I would inform parents who haven't the maturity, will power, gumption, or whatever it is they are lacking to support themselves, that we are not going to let them degrade the lives of the children, and move them into more suitable homes.

    I would require that people be responsible for themselves. I would require that adults begin to learn what it is be an adult. What a concept!
     
  13. Aug 6, 2004 #153 of 175
    Bogy

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    Ever hear of the Welfare Reform Act?

    Ever hear of the Adoption Reform Act of 1997? This has already been done. Unfortunately its been a well kept secret from the general public. In fact, part of the HHS budget someone here wanted to gut contains money to do just these things. Not HUGE tax incentives for special needs children (older, in some cases), but fairly substantial, along with money to subsidize costs, particularly medical costs. It also made the Termination of Parental Rights easier to accomplish and non-revocable. It still involves a pile of paperwork (a big pile), so its not done lightly, but it can be done and done forever. (as a social worker for the state of Missouri my wife did these. We also went through it ourselves in attempting to adopt an older African-American teen.)

    Good idea. This was working pretty good when times were good and unemployment was virtually non-existent. Doesn't work quite so well when jobs are at a premium. Maybe we need a president who will put more people back to work.
     
  14. Aug 6, 2004 #154 of 175
    Bogy

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    BTW, "welfare" as you guys are defining it, is a very small part of the federal budget. Even if you cut it out entirely, its not going to balance the budget, and shifting it to states is just going to raise your state taxes.
     
  15. Aug 6, 2004 #155 of 175
    Danny R

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    and shifting it to states is just going to raise your state taxes.

    I think the point is that if states are in this business anyway, its thus better to pay them directly than through a middleman.
     
  16. Aug 6, 2004 #156 of 175
    RichW

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    I have often ponderd a tax system where the states collect ALL taxes and then "kick up" a certain percentage to the feds - kind of like how the Catholic church or the mafia works. :)
     
  17. Aug 6, 2004 #157 of 175
    RichW

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    As an aside, I just finished my paperwork review for my 2002 IRS audit. Looks like they will owe me another $1200 if they agree with my CPA. This is one reason why I never push my deductions to the limit. I have been audited now 6 out of 10 years. All but 1 audit resulted in a refund in my favor. The other was a wash (I actually owed them around 3 bucks that time).
     
  18. Aug 6, 2004 #158 of 175
    Bogy

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    Good luck. I've never been audited (dang, where's a piece of real wood to knock on?), but my father was one time. This was back in the 60's when preachers were still filing all their income under Schedule C instead of W2s. None of the three IRS employees in the office that day knew diddly about doing a minister's income tax. They ended up claiming they owed him a big refund (for the time and for his income), which he accepted rather than argue with them, but it was because they misfigured his Social Security.
     
  19. Aug 6, 2004 #159 of 175
    SimpleSimon

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    Bogy - so whatever did happen to those Acts? IIRC, they were pilot programs and not widespread. Did they just die out or what?

    Danny R - Yeah, that's a prime piece of what I'm saying.

    RichW - Yeah, it's all the same thing. :D
     
  20. Aug 6, 2004 #160 of 175
    RichW

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    Yep, but it is hard to come up with a federal equivalent of excommunication or cement overshoes for state officials that would cheat on the feds. :)
     
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