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HD "Lite" Question

Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by hvs10trk, May 31, 2007.

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  1. hvs10trk

    hvs10trk Cool Member

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    Out of sheer curiousity, what exactly is "disliked" about Direct TV Mpeg4 technology? Is it the fact that it's a lower bandwidth or is there actually a good deal of tiling? I ask because I had a chance to test out Mpeg4 encoders when they were first coming out and I don't use Direct TV's HD service.
     
  2. Dusty

    Dusty Icon

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    I don't know there is anything to be disliked about D*'s MPEG4 technology. MPEG4 technology has nothing to do with HD-lite. HD-lite is in reference to transmitting the 1920x1080 resolution in 1280x1080. It is done on DirecTV's MPEG2 channels. I don't know if they do that to the HD locals that are in MPEG4 now.

    MPEG4 is a newer technology that can deliver the same resolution with lower bandwidth consumption. It is a good thing because it enables DirecTV to broadcast more HD channels with the bandwidth capacity they have (or will have). They can choose to broadcast any channels in HD or HD-lite with both MPEG2 and MPEG4 technologies.

    I have two 56" sets. In my set up, the HD-lite doesn't bother at all. Other than the close caption is screwed up, I don't see material difference between the HD locals and the MPEG2 OTA I receive. I'd rather have more HD channels.
     
  3. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    I know MPEG-2 bit rate is reduced, [by taking larger "blocks" to compress], but the final output of 1080i is 1920 X 1080 [with less horizontal clarity].
    Have you ever seen a 4:3 program on 1080i? the pixel count is 1440 x 1080, so if you have a "full screen" with a 1080i program, it's 1920 x 1080 in size [and not 1280 x 1080].
    Yes all D* MPEG-2 is over compressed to fit the bandwidth and MPEG-4 reduces the bandwidth differently.
     
  4. brugg90

    brugg90 Cool Member

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    im totally new to these forums, but i just got a hr20 and am sort of dissapointed with directv hd compared to the dish hd i have seen at my friends house. I wish they would hurry up with the new satellite and improve the picture quality. Its as if there are way less details visible on certain channels. Discovery hd is pretty good, but still not as good as dish hd.
     
  5. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    Why blurr it ? Lets keep it simple:

    HD-Lite term cover bit-starving, overcompressed, "special" resolution MPEG-2/MPEG-4[H.264] video signal; the non-ATSC resolutions seen in sat streams are 1440x1080i, 1280x1080i with bit-starving aspect does cause visually lack of details, mosquito noise, screen door effect, etc, also macro-blocking in case overcompression ie racing for low bandwidth.

    BTW, OP could share his experience with us about those encoders.
     
  6. machavez00

    machavez00 Hall Of Fame

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    Local HD MPEG-4 feeds are not HD-Lite
     
  7. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    If they are 1440x1088i, then how you'll name it ?!
    Don't be an Australian ostrich. :)
     
  8. UltraMagnus0001

    UltraMagnus0001 Cool Member

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    I think even the MPEG4 Locals resolution is HD Lite because my local HD looks like crap. The lower resolution HDTV shows I downloaded from bittorrent stills looks better than DirecTV's MPEG 4 local feed. The HD over the air looks way better in New York on my parents older JVC 720 lcos HDTV than my Sony 1080P lcos HDTV. The only channel I think that's not being down res is CBS from my Philadelphia local feed.
     
  9. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    I think what you're seeing is your local encoders, as MPEG-4 here, looks damn close to OTA PQ.
     
  10. Steve

    Steve Well-Known Member

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    I get my OTA MPEG-2 HD from the Empire State Building in NYC, same place D* gets the East Coast feed. On my 50" Fujitsu from 8 feet away, there is NO PQ difference between OTA MPEG-2 and MPEG-4. They're doing a magnificent job converting the NY locals for my market.

    Whether or not the HR20 is "dumbing down" the OTA signal on it's way to my display is another story. I don't have an ATSC tuner to compare. I'm completely satisfied with the picture, though. So even if the HR20 output circuity is limiting the quality somewhat, it's a non-issue at my normal viewing distance.

    Does anyone know if D* is still using the original EN5090 encoders? Or have they upgrade to the new 8090's that were released a few months ago? /s
     
  11. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    I have many ATSC tuners, & D* isn't "dumbing down" the OTA signal.
    This belongs to the "tin hat crowd".
     
  12. Steve

    Steve Well-Known Member

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    Good to hear and not surprising. I can't imagine the PQ being any better than it is! :) /s
     
  13. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    This is well known 'secret' and scientific fact what discussed many times last years - digital signal prone to visible degradation if used more then one conversion; in case of LiL you have three as minimum: MPEG-2 to MPEG-4, then 1920 to 1440 at D* or E* site, then your DVR/IRD to 1920.
    Yeah, add to the head in sand the tin foil hat. :D
     
  14. captain_video

    captain_video Icon

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    FYI - DirecTV broadcasts their mpeg2 HD programming in 1280x1088 and not 1280x1080 as everyone here is stating.
     
  15. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    Yeah, I mentioned the 1088 measure just for academic purpose - STB should cut the 8 'lines' in output signal .
     
  16. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    How in the hell does any of this have anything to do with OTA? :confused:
     
  17. myselfalso

    myselfalso Godfather

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    Most definitely not. The only HD-Lites are MPEG-2s.
     
  18. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    really ?!
    OTA and local on D* MPEG-4 at 99W and 103W - what's common ?
     
  19. PoitNarf

    PoitNarf New Member

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    I believe I'd have to agree.
     
  20. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    I don't know where you get your OTA, but I get mine from my antenna, & D* has nothing to do with it.
    "I think" you mixed up HD locals [from D*] with "true" OTA.

    I'm not disagreeing with what you posted for the "D* loop", just your implication that it has anything to do with OTA reception with an ATSC tuner.

    Make sense now about my "tin hat crowd" thinking OTA was "dumbed down" using OTA through the HR-20?
     
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