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Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by Cavicchi, May 23, 2010.
Here is a great reference: http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm
The test I read was done ~12 years ago, and without a switcher. It was done pretty well.
There are a million sites just like that one, all coming to the same conclusion. Unfortunately, once someone has it in their head that expensive cables sound/look better, there is absolutely no arguing with them.
Jeff, you'll get no disagreement from me that thicker is better. My only point is that other factors come into play, too.
We haven't talked anything about connectors here and especially with thick wire, this can be a huge factor. I've seen great wires attached to crappy banana plugs with minimal contact surface area. The connector becomes the limiting factor. This is one reason I've always preferred bare wire, or if that isn't possible, spade lugs.
My favorite speaker wires ever were some Mark Levinson wires I bought maybe 25 years ago. Looking like 300 Ω twin lead antenna wire on steriods, it was a pair of maybe 10 gauge finely stranded copper wires widely separated with an insulator. They sounded golden but I could only afford two 5' pieces because they were so frickin' expensive.
Experience is a bitch.
You better stop and actually visit that site, he draws the exact opposite conclusion you elude to below.
Hmmm...so it does.
Okay, so that's one million to one. I still like my odds. :lol:
EDIT: Though not entirely:
And amazingly few of those sites, regardless which side of the argument you fall, rely an anything resembling science.
Most all of them are conjecture, opinion, or observation, as opposed to some relatively simple and easily measured tests.
And I continue to be amazed at how people will be so quick to dismiss a site they didn't visit.
My first high-end system featured a then gently-used McIntosh MAC 1900 pushing a pair of Klipsch Cornwalls.
This was my primary system for 20 years.
I have had the pleasure of meeting Dave O'Brien and Paul Klipsch, and have attended clinics hosted by each of them.
Roger's site has been up since the mid 90's, and, like all proud McIntosh owners, I had visited it numerous times before I had even heard of this forum.
I continue to be amazed how eagerly people here want to slam others.
if you are referring to me, that wasn't a slam. You'll know it when I choose to slam. It always ends in moderator action.
Uh, yeah, that's exaclty what we're looking for here. What sounds better is 100% conjecture, opinion, and observation. :shrug:
I couldn't care any less about the science, if it doesn't actually sound better, I don't care what the tests say, they're irrelevant. I can only hear 20-20000 (a little less than that, I'm getting old), so anything outside that is moot (and mute ).
Meritline - free shipping -
Six years ago I bought my first HDMI cables....Monster! I bought Monster cause that's what the store had. I used a store cause I wanted them that same day. Pretty darn simple decision for me, sooo, this convenience cost me.
All of my HDMI cable since has been Monoprice, they're just as pretty, remarkably so for the price. The connectors are probably of cheaper quality but for the price, ya throw it out fast if it starts to look bad.
Make no mistake, they do go bad. In as few as a half a dozen insertions it's possible that you might have a problem with a tab lifting and HDMI ports are delicate, catastrophic damage can happen as a result.
I'd use either the cable with the best connector I could find, or at the very least, inspect the ends of any cable that gets repeated use. YMMV but I think the advice is sound if you value a particular piece of gear.
Also, just saying digital is digital and all of these cables work the same is all well and good but in the case of HDMI, a particular phenomena know as ''sparklies'' can occur. As a matter of fact, I'm quite surprised no one has brought it up as yet.
If one should happen to notice this phenomenon, the cable is bad! ''Sparklies'' can occur in any cable regardless of cost but is probably more commonly associated with a cheaper cable.
I know tons of people beat the crap out of their cables and ports and never have had any of these experiences and I have no intentions of arguing these points with anyone. Most of this is fairly well documented with assorted manufactures and at various websites throughout the web if you're interested enough to dispute the information, or require additional information.
So, as a side note and this is purely a matter of preference, I happen to like my Monster HDMI over the Monoprice for the oddest reason.
Monoprice, at least the ones I have, are considerably fatter and heavier then my Monster, (not your typical type of complaint when comparing these cables) and I worry the extra weight and stiffness may damage an expensive piece of equipments fragile HDMI port. As such, for these Monoprice cables I've had to create my own strain relief as a preventative measure.
HDMI is great but at the same time, these poorly designed connectors suck bigtime.
All IMHO of course
With this being all of my 6th post here, although have followed the forum since inception and I have more then my share of posts on certain ultra high end forums, I don't wanna step on any toes but....this thread was about HDMI, right?
I mean it's alot easier to discuss the merits of cheap HDMI and win that fight hands down, then it is to discuss speaker and analog cables and win that fight cause neither side will ever or has ever conceded their position on them. So if this thread is to continue, you all should keep it true to it's title and let's not get into the $10,000 we may have (or not) spent on cables other then HDMI:lol: cause some of us may have done just that but like a cheap HDMI.
While everyone here seems bent on Monsters distruction, a MONSTER in my system would be considered the cheap stuff so it's all relitive my friends. You objective types have a plethora of companies to hate, Monster in my book is the small fry.
Stay on topic should be the battle cry after this past page but what do I know I'm just the new guy
Capt., I ran a deeper scan of the thread and discovered there is intelligent life there after all!
Shakes bigbrother52's hand.
That brings me to the question was/is it all right that the DTV installer used the existing cables from my Cable company (RG-6) for installation? Cable could be different frequencies and maybe different in other respects to what DTV uses as well?
I think you are referring to impedance (z)
Impedance is a function of resistance and total reactance.
Total reactance is the difference between capacitive reactance and inductive reactance.
capacitance and inductance are 180 degrees out of phase with each other and 90 degrees out of phase with resistance.
To get back to the original question, the hdmi cables that come in the box are fine. Worst thing about a cheap hdmi cable, or any cable is the connector, may become loose or never seat right.
As far as speaker cables go, I'm staying out of that one.....however, monster cable is hardly considered high end, more on the cheaper side.
There is no difference between copper-clad steel (CCS) and solid-copper core (SCC) RG-6 cables as far as signal carrying performance is concerned because the signals are carried predominantly on the surface of the cable core. SCC is recommended by DirecTV because it has less voltage drop than CCS which is important when using long cable runs with conventional (non SWM) signalling. The advantages of SCC over CCS for cable runs between an SWM device (a dish or an SWM8/16) go away because the cable is not carrying power to the LNBs. For cable between an SWM8/16 and a conventional slimline dish, SCC is recommended because with long runs the voltage attenuation in SCC can be enough to degrade the power to the point where either the LNB does not work correctly, or the signalling voltage drops to the point where the LNB delivers the wrong channels.
I am a little confused here so let's simplify it. I had my cable company install RG-6 last year for cable service. The DirectV installer used the existing cables for my receivers. I have a Slimline 5LNB that DirectV converted to SWiM by, I think, changing one LNB. My HR24 info says SWiM-5.
I have MVR with VOD Internet. Does it matter that the DirecTV installer used the existing cables from cable company to run to all my receivers, HR24 and H24?