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HDUI: "Your TV is not HD!"

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by Maruuk, Jan 5, 2012.

  1. Jan 5, 2012 #1 of 59
    Maruuk

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    This when used with an SD "Rabbit"-style transmitter. Which obviously is not HD. But the HD content gets sent over just fine. Blocked by this big warning that my TV is not HD (actually it is but the Rabbit is not) all because their new HDUI can't deal with SD in any way, shape or form.

    So D* HD content goes out via RCAs in SD fine, but their damned HDUI can't scale via the composite outs and it blocks everything with this giant warning message. Swell.

    Anybody got a solution?
     
  2. Jan 5, 2012 #2 of 59
    Davenlr

    Davenlr Geek til I die

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    Set the receiver to output 480i.
     
  3. Jan 5, 2012 #3 of 59
    RobertE

    RobertE New Member

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    There are multiple other threads that cover this topic.
     
  4. Jan 5, 2012 #4 of 59
    Richierich

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    Maruuk, Quit Ranting Over HDUI Problems and Use The Search Function to get Answers to your Problems!!! :)
     
  5. Jan 5, 2012 #5 of 59
    Maruuk

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    Davenlr: You're a GENIUS! I didn't have that box selected in my vid output since I didn't need it for my local set, and it sent SD out fine to the remote set. But by selecting 480i out, it allowed the HDUI to scale to SD perfectly. Awesome, thanks!

    Richie: Stop making ill-conceived assumptions about other posters. Obviously, I went to SEARCH first. Got no coherent information. Go stalk somebody else.
     
  6. Jan 5, 2012 #6 of 59
    veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    While it did take some digging, here's a month old thread about this exact same thing: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=199502
     
  7. Jan 6, 2012 #7 of 59
    pogo

    pogo AllStar

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    Wonderful. I have a box that outputs HD and SD simultaneously -- So D*s fix for that problem is to give me a guide that can't be simultaneously output SD and HD. No problem.
    The fix is I should watch SD on my HDTV so my wife can watch SD in the kitchen? Surely the people who are saying just switch to 480i/p can't be serious? BTW, what new features in the HD guide would I care about, anyway? Faster would have been good, but that ain't gonna happen.
     
  8. Jan 6, 2012 #8 of 59
    Shades228

    Shades228 DaBears

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    It's a HD box so it's primary function is HD. Just because they allowed people to use the SD outputs at the same time does not mean that they support or care about people who decided to use it this way.

    There are options out there to get which have been discussed multiple times in multiple threads. At this point you need to just look for a resolution that you want to do whether it's buying a converter, using 480 or getting a receiver for that room.
     
  9. Jan 6, 2012 #9 of 59
    Davenlr

    Davenlr Geek til I die

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    No, the fix is watch SD on your HDTV so your wife in the kitchen can change the channel on whatever you are watching using the guide. If you are watching something in HD, keep watching it in HD. The wife can still watch in SD. If she wants the channel changed, she can yell "Honey, switch to something else". Maybe even join you in the LR, to decide, using the pretty HD guide.
     
  10. TomCat

    TomCat Broadcast Engineer

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    In your own words.

    They do not support or care about people who have faithfully been letting them hold us up every month for "HD" access fees. This is something akin to a protection racket.

    They don't support them, and they don't care. But then they never miss an opportunity to cash the check, do they?

    To me it is just one more hurdle to moving content to a DVDR (I have to reset the format of the DVR to 480p). I can put up with one more annoyance, and I will, but this is not the first and I fear not the last in a series of annoyances that underline how arrogant and non-caring this company is regarding the ergonomics of their product.

    OK, now that is one way of looking at it, but I think it probably is not the right or realistic way.

    From another point of view, I should probably cut them a break this one time because they may not actually have had any choice in the matter. If you look at what they are trying to do from a technical standpoint, the necessary hardware to do it the right and best way just isn't there already, and it needs to be to do it without annoying all of us that sometimes depend on the SD outputs.

    The box has a hardware rescale to composite video built in, which is ubiquitous and cheap to do. That would make it just as cheap to do that for the GUI (rescale the HD GUI to SD for the composite ports) except that the existing legacy boxes would need a third hardware rescale process available to do that for the GUI overlay (the second one is the one that feeds the HD ports), and you can only up rev the software in a legacy DVR, and obviously can't up rev the hardware to include a third rescale process unless it is futured for that, which it very likely isn't.

    Were the hardware available, it would be cheap and easy for the new GUI to take advantage of that. As a matter of fact, that is not too different from how the old GUI worked; they rescaled the SD GUI overlay on the fly to match the HDMI/component output format (you cant overlay a 480 GUI over a 720 or 1080 signal without rescaling it first), and sent an unconverted GUI overlay to the composite ports. Since both the composite ports and the GUI were both already SD, no rescale there was necessary.

    But now that the GUI is HD, it has to be rescaled to fit both the HDMI/component output, and rescaled to SD for overlay on the rescaled composite outputs. Apparently there is no way to use the process that rescales HD video down to SD to do the same thing for the GUI, because it is an overlay and a second video source and the overlay can only happen after the down-rez of the main video to SD.

    And that makes sense; if the original video is 720p, and you are using the HD rescale process to convert that to 1080i while simultaneously deinterlacing a 1080p GUI to 1080i for overlay, neither one of those processes can also be available to simultaneously rescale the 1080p GUI to 480 to match the rescaled SD video feeding the composite ports.

    IOW, with the main rescale process busy feeding the HDMI/component ports, and the SD rescale only available for the main downscaled SD video, that leaves no rescale process available for the GUI overlay for the SD ports.

    This means that the only possible workaround is to make us match the HDMI/component format to the SD port format; if the main format is set to 480 then the rescale that handles the GUI overlay can handle both the HDMI/component outputs and the SD composite outputs because then it is the same rescale process. And of course this also means the inclusion of two other one-frame overlays to use as nag screens when we don't do this.

    So, they're off the hook this time in my book; you can't make an omelet without breaking an egg or two, and apparently you can't retrofit an HD DVR that has an SD GUI with a new HD GUI without a certain amount of compromise in the process, either.
     
  11. Shades228

    Shades228 DaBears

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    I know it was my words I typed them. I also typed them for a specific reason and that reason is this. If you design a product to be used in a specific manner and people use it in another manner you don't care if it will make something happen in a manner you don't support if it makes your product better for people using it correctly.

    I could use some analogy's and examples but then the next 2 pages would be about who's analogy is better or more appropriate.

    The bottom line is that DIRECTV doesn't support their equipment being used for multiple TV's and even though you can make it work they don't have to care about inconveniencing people who aren't using their product the way they design it to better the experience for those who do.
     
  12. Maruuk

    Maruuk Hall Of Fame

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    Here's what's crazy: I added a check in the 480i box that hadn't been previously checked, went out to the living room and bingo, everything worked great! The HDUI via the SD Rabbit feed was now properly scaled into 480i--made it appropriately blurry--but it was all there just fine, everything worked as per usual, no annoying giant warning blocker. HDUI scaled right into SD perfectly. Problem solved.

    The next day, blammo, right back to the warning blocker. So I check on my base set, and somehow the 480i box is now magically UNSET. So I check it again, go out to the living room, but now, no deal, warning blocker again. Checked back on the main TV--the 480i is still set correctly. Huh? Impossible. Worked fine the day before.

    So we know from this that it CAN work fine, it just doesn't want to. D* hardware is such a screwed up mess.
     
  13. hilmar2k

    hilmar2k Hall Of Fame

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    Only 480i can be selected. In order for the HDGUI to display on an SD TV, the resolution must be changed to 480i. The best way to do this is to follow the instructions in the warning when displayed on the SD TV. Just adding 480i to the list of selected resolutions will not accomplish anything when viewing HD programming.

    Your other option is to get a component to composite converter.
     
  14. pogo

    pogo AllStar

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    Would that it were that simple, but alas it isn't

    Hmm, designed to simultaneously output video in three different formats, but not expecting anyone to use it that way? Do let me apologize for using D*'s equipment "incorrectly".

    I've been with D* since 1997 (BUD user prior to that). Since 1999 I've been combining OTA with DirecTV and distributing it to four bedrooms and the kitchen using digital NTSC modulators. I currently distribute two HR10-250s, an R16, an HR21, a Dishplayer, and a DVD player using two four channel modulators, and two distribution amps which combine the OTA signals with the two modulator outputs I also have a wired IR system that allows me to control any of those boxes from any of the remote TV locations. So, it ain't quite so simple. If you get the idea significant time and money invested in this you're right.

    The most puzzling thing about this thread is that none of the responders pointed to me to the sticky about solutions to this problem which is dated two weeks ago. Mea Culpa for not noticing it before. Stewart Sweet reposted one of the solutions, beyond that there were none offered in any thread that I found. Looks like I'll be spending $50 for a component/composite converter. The sad thing is that if it weren't so convoluted an operation to simply change resolutions on the fly I probably wouldn't even have come here. The HR-10s won't output SD and HD simultaneously, but it takes a touch of a button on the remote to switch back and forth.
     
  15. DogLover

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    Pressing and holding the Exit button is just one button.
     
  16. bobcamp1

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    Apology accepted. (Yes, I know you were being sarcastic.)

    D* could have done what the old HR-10s did. But they made it simpler by activating all the ports. That way you didn't have an additional step in setup and confused customers wondering why the output was broken.

    Until now, D* condoned using more than one output at once, but it was never officially supported. The function can disappear any day. Just like eSATA.

    I agree that the title of the sticky thread describing this is confusing. It should be clearer.
     
  17. Maruuk

    Maruuk Hall Of Fame

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    1.) Why did just adding 480i work fine the first day? According to the above that would be impossible, but I swear, it worked great like that for hours.

    2) When the warning blocker comes on, pressing and holding the EXIT button does nothing. Tried it for long periods of time.

    3) So checking ONLY the 480i box is one solution?
     
  18. hilmar2k

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    1) You were most likely wathcing SD programming when that worked. Since without 480i checked the receiver upconverts to whatever other resolution is checked, SD programming without 480i checked will trigger the warning message.

    2) It should. Never tried it myself, but it's worked for others.

    3) Correct.
     
  19. NFLnut

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    eSATA is no longer available?
     
  20. NFLnut

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    It doesn't work most of the time for me either. The "Your TV Is Not HD .." banner stays on the screen and the "BONG BONG BONG BONG .." sound effect repeats despite me pressing and holding the EXIT button. Like a lot of things with the DirecTV DVRs, it doesn't work properly.
     

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