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Home Owner's Associations (HOA), Why?

Discussion in 'The OT' started by Rich, Apr 24, 2013.

  1. Apr 24, 2013 #21 of 114
    SayWhat?

    SayWhat? Know Nothing

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    I own my property. What I do is my business. If I want to throw a whizz in the front yard, I do it (and have several times). As long as I don't do it when a school bus full of kids is rolling by, I'm good.


    No Gladys Cravitz telling me what color I can paint my front door.
     
  2. Apr 24, 2013 #22 of 114
    trh

    trh This Space for Sale

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    Unless toobs lives in Hawaii and was getting a DirecTV 1.2m dish. ;)
     
  3. Apr 24, 2013 #23 of 114
    spartanstew

    spartanstew Dry as a bone

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    Exactly why I want an HOA. I don't want my neighbors peeing in their own front yards and don't want turquoise doors in the neighborhood.

    If you want those things, then yes, you're better off without an HOA.
     
  4. Apr 24, 2013 #24 of 114
    trh

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    It is still a free country so you have a choice to buy or not buy based on your personal feelings regarding HOAs.

    The nice thing about HOAs is once the developer has completed their construction, they turn the HOA over to the owners. So if you don't like the covenants, get involved with the HOA and change them.

    I moved 13 times in 23 years and as previously stated above, unless I can buy a good chunk of property to build a house, my future home(s) will be in a professionally managed HOA community. Although you still have to get involved with the process.
     
  5. Apr 24, 2013 #25 of 114
    trh

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    I don't believe any of my previous HOAs had a rule against public urination. But the city/county did and their penalty include jail time.
     
  6. Apr 24, 2013 #26 of 114
    sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    I have a question - Has anyone lived in an area where a HOA didn't exist there and was then created? That'd suck, IMO, because you'd have no choice. Could they enforce rules that weren't there before?

    I'm more of a "it my property to do with as I want as long as it's legal in my city & state" guy, but understand why people want them and choose to buy in them.
     
  7. Apr 24, 2013 #27 of 114
    sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    I hope you live on large land in the country, because that's just sick & inappropriate if any houses or roads are within view.
     
  8. Apr 24, 2013 #28 of 114
    spartanstew

    spartanstew Dry as a bone

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    Mine either, but if SayWhat? lived in my neighborhood, I'm sure we'd add it to the rules, along with many others, I'm sure.
     
  9. Apr 24, 2013 #29 of 114
    SayWhat?

    SayWhat? Know Nothing

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  10. Apr 24, 2013 #30 of 114
    sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    Horrible example. Crazy people kill everyday. It's not the HOA's fault some nutjob can't control his rage.
     
  11. Apr 24, 2013 #31 of 114
    Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    The public urination would likely be illegal due to city/state laws... but you shouldn't get a say in what color I paint my home or its doors. Why do you think you should have that right? What's the difference in you deciding that vs a larger public entity (like say government)?
    But it isn't... a free country exactly... you don't have to buy a home that is in a HOA, true... but you could be in an area where the only homes for sale are part of a HOA. Where's your free country then? Remember when people used to decide not to sell to a minority family because they didn't want "their kind" in the neighborhood? The HOA is just another way to keep people you think are undesirable away... only now instead of just being racially biased, or culturally biased, they welcome all other kinds of bias to the HOA board!

    Also... the "if you don't like the covenants, get involved and change them" applies to all walks of life, right? Don't like the law? Get involved, run for office, and make new laws... except, the world doesn't exactly work that way. You can't get in office or on a HOA board unless there is an opening... and even then, why do you get to make bylaws for others?

    A "free country" would allow you to do what you want on your own property. A "free country" wouldn't have other groups of people that can tell you not to paint your house blue, or build a deck, or own a certain kind of color car, or own pets, etc. etc. People are just way too nosy for their own good and determined that others have to do things their way "or else" they threaten to take away your home.

    You know... a "free country" wouldn't have situations where a person paints their house the wrong color and could have their home taken away as a result. That doesn't sound "free" to me.
    Last time I checked, the way it works is...

    IF you live in a community that does not have a HOA, then one can be created IF they get 3/4 I think of the people to vote. However, no current owners of homes at that formation would be bound by the HOA rules. The grey area, however, is IF you decide to move and sell your home... I think the new owners would have to agree to the HOA whereas you would be grandfathered out.

    The flip side of that... IF you live in a community with HOA, you can also vote to disband it... but I think more than 3/4 have to vote to disband in order to make that happen... which will probably be hard to do since most communities with a HOA will have enough busybodies on the board to vote down that kind of majority to disband.
     
  12. Apr 24, 2013 #32 of 114
    spartanstew

    spartanstew Dry as a bone

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    Umm, because I bought a home in a subdivision with an HOA that disallows that. Did you read the title of the thread?,

    Hey, if you're not in my subdivision, you can put a stripper pole in your front yard if you want, but if you are in my subdivision, I have every right to say what color you can paint your house or door, as long as it's in the rules.

    I'm not sure you understand how HOA's work.
     
  13. Apr 24, 2013 #33 of 114
    Upstream

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    Rich -- I think you live near me in central NJ. Other than condominium communities (where the HOA has responsibility for grounds maintenance, etc), I have never heard of a single family home community in NJ with an HOA.

    There are towns in NJ with "historical districts" where the town regulates things like what color you can paint your house. And most towns have laws to ensure that people maintain their property, don't park trucks on their front lawn, etc. After one of my neighbors sold his house to a bank as part of a job relocation, I reported the bank to the town for failing to mow the lawn. Within 48 hours the lawn was mowed.

    There are some "club communities" in NJ, which are usually private, gated communities with club amenities. But these club communities don't have the same type of authority as an HOA. For instance, I have a friend who owns a house in an exclusive club community in northern NJ. He can basically do whatever he wants with his home, as long as he follows the town zoning regulations. The club association has no control or say over his private property.


    NJ often gets criticized for having too many towns (some only 1 square mile and only a few thousand people), but the NJ concept of local governments also eliminates the need or desire for HOAs in NJ.

    If you wanted to buy a single-family non-condo home in NJ in an HOA community, I'm not sure you could.
     
  14. Apr 24, 2013 #34 of 114
    spartanstew

    spartanstew Dry as a bone

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    It's no different than any other organization/group. If I join a golf league that prohibits drinking alcohol, I'm not going to get mad when I want a beer and can't. I knew it going in. If I accept a job with a company that prohibits smoking on company premises, I'm not going to think my rights are being taken away if I can't smoke in my car in the company parking lot.

    If I buy a home in an HOA, i'm expected to abide by the rules, and so is everyone else. No rights are taken away.
     
  15. Apr 24, 2013 #35 of 114
    trh

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    The HOA can't keep people out. They have no authority or say as to who can buy a house in the community.

    But when you do buy, you sign a contract that you agree to abide by the covenants. The four HOAs I've been involved with each board member had a 3-year limit and through normal rotation, about 1/3 of the board positions were up for new members each year. And all owners get to vote for those positions and only homeowners can run. It is one of the easiest positions to get as most don't like to put up with the BS of owners who sign an agreement to follow the covenants, but then either don't or complain constantly.
     
  16. Apr 24, 2013 #36 of 114
    sregener

    sregener Godfather

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    True. But they can selectively enforce the rules so that people they deem undesirable leave. I've seen it done. And since one of the HOA rules is agreeing to arbitration (at a company selected by the HOA) and giving up the right to sue, there isn't much you can do about it.
     
  17. Apr 24, 2013 #37 of 114
    trh

    trh This Space for Sale

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    I guess I'm going to have to review my HOA. I've never seen anything about arbitration in any of the four HOAs agreements I've signed.
     
  18. Apr 24, 2013 #38 of 114
    Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Did you read the title of the thread?

    The title is "Home Owner's Associations (HOA), Why?" as in... why are there HOAs? This thread wasn't started to talk about how great HOAs was, at least not with a title like that!

    To argue that HOAs are "optional" is to ignore reality. HOAs are only optional if you have a LOT of new construction homes on the market in your area that do not already have a HOA. Where I live, you can't buy a new home without joining a HOA, and many existing homes are already in neighborhoods with a HOA too... so you can't just choose to buy a home not in a HOA most of the time.
    Golf isn't a necessity... there are lots of jobs, and even if your job doesn't permit smoking there you can go elsewhere to smoke (including your home) without jeopardizing your job.

    But people need to live somewhere... and telling someone, "if you don't like HOAs live somewhere else" is quite an arrogant thing to say and feel. So much for US freedom!
     
  19. Apr 25, 2013 #39 of 114
    trh

    trh This Space for Sale

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    The TS didnt ask why are there HOAs, but why would someone would buy into a community with an HOA.

     
  20. Apr 25, 2013 #40 of 114
    djlong

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    I don't doubt there are some well-run HOAs that really DO have a "light touch" and are concerned with keeping the neighborhood decent looking without turning it into the Stepford: The Next Generation. Just because I haven't seen one doesn't meant they don't exist.

    Right now, in my neighborhood, there are two houses that are run down. There used to be four, but the neighbors across the street sold their house and the new owners did a FANTASTIC job of fixing things up and, in 2006, my ex-wife moved out and I was finally able to start repairing mine.

    Guess what - my house is appreciating in value despite what's NOT happening at the end of the street (a guy's house is half covered in tattered Tyvek) and adjacent to my backyard (more Tyvek from an unfinished garage addition).

    But to tell me I can't park my car on the street? That my wife can't plant flowers in the front yard? That I can't have a registered, inspected, sea-worthy boat on a trailer in my driveway? That it somehow makes YOUR property look bad if YOUR personal taste in color doesn't match my trim (what if your buyer likes MY color more than YOURS?). I don't like your bland aluminum siding - but I'm not going to file a complaint about it - so don't complain about my cedar shingles. And it's none of your business if I decided to re-side my house in masonry to look like a small castle. Because it's *MY* house and we have "Live Free or Die" on our license plates. ...and if I did that and you complained? I'd point out that someone in the next town over did it and other property values INCREASED because of the novelty. Looking like a cookie-cutter Levittown does NOT hike property values.

    I don't have trash in the yard. My lawn grows a little taller because I don't SHAVE it and I'm trying to re-grow some bare patches. My wife has a old work van for some of her jobs. Sorry if it's not a Lexus, but you can take your snobbish arrogance at how "other people should live" and choke on it. You don't like my lawn being an inch taller than yours? TOO BAD!

    Funny thing is - I get along with all my neighbors. When I lived in a condo, I barely knew 3 other names.
     

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