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Home Owner's Associations (HOA), Why?

Discussion in 'The OT' started by Rich, Apr 24, 2013.

  1. Apr 25, 2013 #81 of 114
    swyman18

    swyman18 Legend

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    Fair enough, but in my hypothetical example you don't live in an HOA anymore. Those neighbors are not breaking any laws. Are they considered to be beneath you? I guess that's what I meant by saying that line of thinking rubs people the wrong way.

    But I agree, the rules should be followed if they exist. I think a lot of people get in over their head when they buy a home in an HOA and think the rules are no big deal, but then realize it can be too much. I don't know, maybe in some cases they get bit by the exact rules that attracted them to the development in the first place.
     
  2. Apr 25, 2013 #82 of 114
    spartanstew

    spartanstew Dry as a bone

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    Sorry, I misread your post where it said NO HOA.

    No, they certainly wouldn't be beneath me and if it didn't cause a danger to me or my family I wouldn't care at all. Now, if it was parked on the lawn in such a way that it blocked the sidewalk, I'd probably go talk to them and see if there was another solution (so my boys could ride their bikes on the sidewalk without having to swerve in the road), but other than that not really a big deal.
     
  3. Apr 25, 2013 #83 of 114
    spartanstew

    spartanstew Dry as a bone

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    That hit the nail squarely on the head.
     
  4. Apr 25, 2013 #84 of 114
    swyman18

    swyman18 Legend

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    Yeah, when we first moved to Hawaii we rented a house for a couple of years because we didn't know exactly where we were going to live or if we were even going to stay. We chose a house in a brand new development that had an HOA, not terribly strict but still an HOA nonetheless. I think we were attracted to how nice everything was. Since we were renters, most of the landscaping and other maintenance was not our responsibility. After a while, when we were looking into buying a house, we thought about buying in that development but I realized it just wasn't for me. I felt stressed by the fact it seemed that everyone that walked around the neighborhood was constantly scrutinizing everything. One lady came to the door one day to chat about something, and she commented on how nice some the flowers and shrubbery was. I said thank you (even though I didn't own it and couldn't take credit for it), but then she proceeded to criticize one of the shrubs saying it needed to be trimmed better and in a certain way. She was quite rude about it, and I was a bit taken aback. I responded by telling her I would get the clippers and she could trim them herself if it bothered her that much. She got all huffy and walked away.

    It was at that moment I knew for a fact I did not want to buy a house with a HOA. I did not want to put up with the stress of knowing my lawn had to be perfect at all times while trying to work at least 80 hours a week. I knew there was no way I could keep my yard up to everyone's standards.
     
  5. Apr 25, 2013 #85 of 114
    spartanstew

    spartanstew Dry as a bone

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    HOA or not, I would have told her to F OFF.

    And I had more busy body nosy neighbors like that when I lived in houses without HOA's than I've ever had with HOA's (in fact, can't think of a single neighbor like that in any of the HOA's I've been a part of, but can think of 2 specifically when I had houses without HOA's).
     
  6. Apr 25, 2013 #86 of 114
    Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    In the interest of "obeying the rules that you agree to"...

    You are aware that riding bicycles on a sidewalk is likely illegal, right? Sidewalks are for pedestrians, and bicycles must generally follow the same rules as motor vehicles in terms of riding on the road and obeying traffic laws. That's not even a HOA rule... it's a law in most (if not all) parts of the country. You'd have to check your specific state, city, or county laws to be sure.

    And riding bicycles on the sidewalk can actually be causing a danger to pedestrians... so some of your neighbors might care about that too.
     
  7. Apr 25, 2013 #87 of 114
    spartanstew

    spartanstew Dry as a bone

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    There's not a single city in the US where it's illegal for children (under 12 years of age) to ride bicycles on the sidewalk. In fact, in most places it's illegal for them to ride bicycles in the street.
     
  8. Apr 26, 2013 #88 of 114
    SayWhat?

    SayWhat? Know Nothing

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  9. Apr 26, 2013 #89 of 114
    MysteryMan

    MysteryMan Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    As my mother would say "look with your eyes". Unlike Wylie, Texas children in these parts are taught to pay attention when running or riding their bikes so they don't crash into large objects like trash cans or parked vehicles. Around here it's the norm for kids to play and run in open areas (hay fields) with knee high grass. It amazes me how younger people find simple tasks a effort. My wife and I are in our sixties. Our house is located on 52 acres. We share the responsibilities for it's upkeep. We also adopt and care for livestock (horses, cows, and goats) that were abused by their previous owner's. Maintaining our pool is the least of our efforts.
     
  10. Apr 26, 2013 #90 of 114
    fluffybear

    fluffybear Hall Of Fame DBSTalk Club

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    :confused:

    I received a ticket for riding my bicycle on the sidewalk while growing up in Tucson, Arizona. I was 8.

    I googled a few different areas this morning and have not found a single one which says that children under 12 are prohibited from riding their bicycle on the street & that they are allowed to ride on the sidewalk.


    From a Guide for Bicyles - Pima County, AZ:


    SEC. 5-2. Riding on sidewalks and pedestrian
    paths, and through underpasses.

    A. It shall be unlawful to ride a bicycle on any public
    sidewalks, or upon a designated pedestrian path in
    any public park, unless signs are posted specifically
    permitting bicycling.

    B. It shall be unlawful to ride a bicycle through any under-
    pass when signs are posted prohibiting bicycling.



    From the California Highway Patrol Website:

    From the city of Los Angeles DOT Website:

    Sidewalk Riding (LAMC 56.15) Prohibits the riding of bicycles (or other human power devices) on sidewalks (bikeways or boardwalks) with a willful or wanton disregard for the safety of persons or property. Disallows the riding of bicycles on Ocean Front Walk in Venice.
     
  11. Apr 26, 2013 #91 of 114
    fluffybear

    fluffybear Hall Of Fame DBSTalk Club

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    In November of 1994 (prior to OTAR), a friend of mine received a letter from his HOA instructing him to remove his DirecTV dish as satellite dishes & antennas were prohibited.

    According to him, the dish was not visible to from the street nor was it visible if someone were to peeked over the fence from the driveway. Only possible conclusion is one of two neighbors turned him in.
     
  12. Apr 26, 2013 #92 of 114
    spartanstew

    spartanstew Dry as a bone

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    Not sure what your point is. Of course they're taught to look and be careful, but eliminating obstacles when possible seems to make perfect sense to me. The fact that you live on a bunch of acres and aren't involved with an HOA precludes you from even talking with any credibility on the subject.

    Well, I partially stand corrected. Apparently there is a city that disallows it (although I couldn't find anything in that literaute specifically talking about children).

    From the National Highway and Traffic Safety Administration:

    The safest place for bicycle riding is on the street, where bicycles are expected to follow the same rules of the road as motorists and ride in the same direction.

    Children less than 10 years old, however, are not mature enough to make the decisions necessary to safely ride in the street.

    Children less than 10 years old are better off riding on the sidewalk.


    For anyone riding on a sidewalk:

    Check the law in your State or jurisdiction to make sure sidewalk riding is allowed.

    Watch for vehicles coming out of or turning into driveways.

    Stop at corners of sidewalks and streets to look for cars and to make sure the drivers see you before crossing.

    Enter a street at a corner and not between parked cars. Alert pedestrians that you are near by saying, “Excuse me,” or, “Passing on your left,” or use a bell or horn.

    http://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/pedbimot/bike/kidsandbikesafetyweb/


    If you Google, "children riding bicycles on the sidewalk" you'll find many more examples of "most" places prefering small children to ride on the sidewalk (including here).

    Oh, I'm sure it's happened before, but as I said, I've never experienced it. People have been hit by lightning before too, but I've never seen it happen or experience it. As someone who's experienced HOA's and non-HOA's, the neigborhoods and neighbors in HOA's have been much friendlier and nicer to each other than either of the non-HOA's I've lived in.
     
  13. Apr 26, 2013 #93 of 114
    spartanstew

    spartanstew Dry as a bone

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    I'd also like to point out that according to Arizona law (and many other states) childrens bicycles aren't even considered bicycles and are not subject to the same laws as adults:

    6. "Bicycle" means a device, including a racing wheelchair, that is propelled by human power and on which a person may ride and that has either:

    (a) Two tandem wheels, either of which is more than sixteen inches in diameter.

    ( B) Three wheels in contact with the ground, any of which is more than sixteen inches in diameter.

    From here: http://azbikelaw.org/excerpts.html#101

    You should have fought that ticket, since most 5-8 year olds have 14" wheels and most 8-12 year olds have 16" wheels.
     
  14. Apr 26, 2013 #94 of 114
    djlong

    djlong Hall Of Fame

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    I wonder how many people bump into HOA problems because of societal changes?

    Let me illustrate...

    Back in the 70s, I lived about 2 blocks up the road from where I live now. (Moved away in the 1981, back in 1990). In our house, the occupancy was like most others. Parent(s) and kid(s). Pretty simple.

    Fast-forward to the 2000s. Suddenly, these same houses have become multi-generational. The kids of the baby-boomers can't necessarily afford their own place. Instead of 2 cars maximum on each plot (mom & dad's cars), you get situations like our eighbors across the street who have FOUR cars. If there was an HOA demanding all cars be in a garage, they literally would have outlawed the now-20-somethings from having a job!

    At least in our area, the "kids" are "staying home" for a lot longer. I moved out as soon as I could support myself - but times have changed and that's not always the rule nowadays.

    Of course, I've also noticed other changes in the neighborhood since 1978. Some houses have had additions put on, in-law apartments, etc. Also, more and more garages are storage areas for "stuff" instead of garages for cars.
     
  15. Apr 26, 2013 #95 of 114
    MysteryMan

    MysteryMan Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    Wrong! I have personal experience with a HOA. Prior to living where I reside now my wife and I lived on beachfront property in Connecticut. Neighborhood was tightly controlled by a HOA. Had to pay a hefty "monthly" fee for maintenance of the private beach in the neighborhood even though we didn't use it and it was only open between Memorial Day and Labor Day. Our next door neighbors were a elderly couple. The husband supplemented their retirement income by reupholstering furniture in his basement. The cargo van he used to pick up and deliver the furniture wasn't marked. Nor could one hear him working in his basement. The only time one could tell what he was doing was when he was either loading or unloading the truck. Neighborhood busy body reported him and the HOA Gestapo forced him to cease operations because it was against their rules. That's when I said to Hell with this. Had the last laugh with them. I intentionally sold my house to people who were deemed undesirable because of their ethnic background by those who controlled the HOA but were powerless to do anything about it. And as the saying goes "there goes the neighborhood". As I have stated before I make a handsome living with income properties (commercial and residential). There are enough complexities with being a landlord. The last thing I want is involvement with a HOA.
     
  16. Apr 26, 2013 #96 of 114
    Phil T

    Phil T Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    I wish I was in a neighborhood with a HOA. The first house I owned did not have one. Within 10 years there were so many problems with neighbors turning there property into trash heaps I had to move and take a loss. People with no trash service, just throw it in your back yard. Junk unlicensed cars, no lawn maintenance etc. I had a neighbor run a body shop out of his garage. Every time his compressor kicked in it would dim the lights in my house. Another never cut his grass. The county came in and did it for him. After that he would only cut it at 1:00 AM to piss off the neighbor who reported him. After that he set the house on fire smoking in bed. The house was totally rebuilt and he still lived there. I finally found out the house was owned by HUD who was footing the bill for him. Now I am in a older neighborhood with no HOA. The realtors advertise it that way so boat and RV owners love it. I am watching the same stuff happen here. I know I am older, but I am ready to move and let someone else deal with it. Just wish I could afford a 55+ community.
     
  17. Apr 26, 2013 #97 of 114
    The Merg

    The Merg 1*

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    Ordinance from where I am...


    Interesting to note though is the definition of bicycle...


    As mentioned regarding HOA's though, the big thing is that when you move there you are opting-in. If you don't like the rules, just don't move there. When I purchased my townhouse, I read the rules before purchasing and saw nothing in there that was really too intrusive to me. If there had been, I probably would have walked away. I also remember that while I was on the board, we also changed covenants that we believed were out of date or too strict.

    Also, regarding the post about having marked vehicles in the neighborhood. My HOA did have that regulation. All that people did to get around the reg (and it was considered acceptable) was to put a magnetic label over the business markings on the vehicle. Lots of apartment complexes have that requirement as well. I see many taxis parked with blank magnets on them that cover up the name of the taxi company.

    - Merg
     
  18. Apr 26, 2013 #98 of 114
    fluffybear

    fluffybear Hall Of Fame DBSTalk Club

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    Since We just purchased new bikes for the kids this winter, I'll debate with you the wheel sizes. Everything I have found from a number of shopping sites to Bike manufacturers, etc. put age 4/5 to 8 with 16 inch wheels and ages 9 to 12 with wheel sizes in range of 20 to 24 inches. I confirmed this by also measuring the wheels on the bikes we own. My 8 and 10 year old have 20 inches wheels while the wheel on the 3 year old's is 14 inches.

    So, Arizona law (as well as other states) consider children's bicycles to be bicycles and subject to the same laws as adults.
     
  19. Apr 26, 2013 #99 of 114
    spartanstew

    spartanstew Dry as a bone

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    Yes, your one experience with an HOA certainly condemns all of them. I could site hundreds of instances of slum landlords too, so should we assume you're one?

    That's fine, my 7 and 10 year olds both have 16" wheels.

    I'll take your word for it that you got a ticket 50 years ago when riding your bike on the sidewalk, but I'll say that's very, very rare. I've never seen some father teaching his kid to ride a bike in the street. Ever seen a commercial of something on TV where a Dad is pushing his kid without training wheels for the first time? Where is that done? On the street? Rubbish. That's one of the things sidewalks are for, and as I pointed out that's what the National Highway and Traffic Safety Administration recommends. You may tell your kids to go ride their bikes in the street, but that's not for me nor any family I've ever known.
    it's obviously different for older bike riders, but on subdivision streets where kids play, bicycles are ridden on the sidewalk - just about everywhere (including Tucson I would bet).

    And don't confuse Arizona law with Tucson law. From Arizona Bike Law ( http://azbikelaw.org/blog/sidewalk-cycling-in-arizona/)

    There is no Arizona state law regulating sidewalk cycling, but cities can and do have their own set of restrictions and requirement.

    Since it's obvious there's a few of you that hate HOA's for whatever personal experiences you may or may not have had, I'll let you have the thread now. Just remember, there's thousands (if not millions) of very pleasant experiences with HOA's too (and I do believe the thread was asking why have an HOA, not why NOT to have one - but we appreciate your input nonetheless). The good news is that there's plenty of homes without them where you can paint your houses any color you want, keep your cars up on blocks on your lawn, and force your kids to play in the street. Take care.
     
  20. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    Interesting how this thread evolved from my curiosity to what it has become. Still learning stuff tho. I'd still like to know how much these HOAs cost a month.

    I'd think if someone looking for a home bought one in an affluent area they would have no need for an HOA. We live near enough to PA for my wife to commute and I've been looking for a second house there. One of her friends has a McMansion built on a lot that they bought first. My wife is impressed by the McMansion, but the neighborhood has all the bad things I've seen in this thread. Of course nobody else in that neighborhood but my wife's friend makes anything near what she makes. Clearly, they made a huge mistake when they bought that lot in the first place.

    Rich
     

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