Hotel setup for 32 rooms intermediate problem of pixelated pic

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by TOPAZ1, Jul 27, 2018.

  1. TOPAZ1

    TOPAZ1 New Member

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    Jul 27, 2018
    I have attached my hotel Direct tv setup, would like to know what needs to be corrected for my intermediate problem of pixelated pic in few rooms.
    Its a loop through system and idially would like to have two tap with in and out but could not find one so had to use 4 way splitter instead.
     

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  2. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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  3. doctor j

    doctor j Hall Of Fame DBSTalk Club

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    I'm no installer but I believe your issue is signal loss due to splitters rather than taps.
    What rooms specifically are having problems.
    I suspect 108-110, 208-210 and 308-310 are your problem areas.

    One minor issue is that the two "trunk" taps are not usually the same db, First is 12 db then 9db then 6db if that many required.
    Daisy chaining 4 way splitters x 5 gives 1/4 to the 5th exponent power reduction. ie that last run is 1/1024 the power off the SWM-13

    see here for a quick overview:
    DSWM13 Module SWM-13 Multiswitch for DIRECTV

    Doctor j
     
  4. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    Doctor j, could you tell about compatibility cascading SWM5 and SWM13 ? I don't see on that linked page the TS's variant ...
     
  5. doctor j

    doctor j Hall Of Fame DBSTalk Club

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    You can use other switches off the "trunk" line but the SWM 5 in his diagram is the ODU not a SWM5 switch . Likely a 5LNB dish (and not really a SWM device at all since he has 4 cables out to locker/PI).
    A preliminary dB loss calculation with 5 x 4way splitters and maybe 250 ft of RG6 cable gives a best case -56 dB at rooms x08 to x10and more likely ~ -79.5 dB at 2100 MHZ. This assumes the DSWM13 output is High Output like the DSWM30HP at ~ -5 dB (I did find one snippit of info suggesting DSWM13 and DSWM30HP had the same output and several sources peg the DSWM30HP at -5dB)
    No wonder there is pixilation!

    A present day setup like this would use DSWM30HP switches.

    Doctor j
     
  6. TOPAZ1

    TOPAZ1 New Member

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    Jul 27, 2018
    Doctor j thanks for your suggestion to use DSWM30HP, if I replace the SWM13 with DSWM30HP do I have to make any changes to the 4 way splitters or should I use taps as suggested in loop through systems.

    Sorry the SWM5 in the diagram is the ODU (5LNB dish)
     
  7. doctor j

    doctor j Hall Of Fame DBSTalk Club

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    I think the 4 ways are your problems.
    Even if you put 2 at each 4 way the line signal drop will be less.

    Call Solid Signal or Sonora Design or North American Cable for the parts that you need.
    Before switching to DSWM30HP I'd try the taps. The ideal DSWM30HP setup uses the same taps.

    Doctor j
     
  8. AntAltMike

    AntAltMike Hall Of Fame

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    I once had to do an inexpensive job of bailing out the vertical riser wiring in a three tower cluster where the buildings were seven, eight and nine stories tall. Even though the nitwits who had installed the system used four port, high frequency taps and RG-11 coax, they still had a structural signal differential level of over 30dB.

    Because it was easy for me to drop a couple of vertical coax trunk lines through the big, cored slab holes, I mostly rough-balanced it with splitters in strategic locations. I still had structural differentials of maybe 10-15dB, but in this business, that is close enough to bring them within the receiver input signal strength windows.

    Can you run a coax from the unused or terminated port on the X00-X01 splitters to serve as the inputs for the X06-X07 splitters? That by itself MIGHT do it for you, or for a few dollars more, you can then also replace the X04-X05 4-way splitters with 2-way splitters

    And then, if you can see that one of the X08,9,10 lines is significantly longer than the other two, you can replace each X08,9,10 four-way with two 2-ways, using the first split to source the longest of those three drops.

    If you can estimate wire lengths we can give you better, back-of-the-envelope calculations of what such a kludge re-engineering will yield for results.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2018
  9. TOPAZ1

    TOPAZ1 New Member

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    I had a direct tv technician come and work on the finding the problem in process he tweeted the dish also but could not fix the problems but that evening I had complains of black screen just show the channel no. So I turned off everything on the system and used my AIM meter to see if my dish was aligned, I was able to get -30 dnm and then I turned on everything on the system since then I have no problem it seems all my problems are solved.
    I have single tap splitters so I am going to switch to them if I have problems again. As of now I am going to leave as it is until the problem came back.
     
  10. TOPAZ1

    TOPAZ1 New Member

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    I have one more question for you folks. I have hughes network big dish which are not using any more, I was wondering i can us it to mound the
    DIRECTV 99, 101, 103 LNB FOR ALASKA AND HAWAII SATELLITE DISH
    • Model: DTVAHKAKUKIT
    • Manufactured by: Directv
    • UPC: 601430111849
    If this make any difference to get better signal then the smaller swim5 dish we are using now.
     
  11. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    you could try, but AL/HI dish is bigger and have longer focal distance, hence angles/distance between LNBF feedhorns
    so, try and tell us what SS you'll got for all three sats
     
  12. AntAltMike

    AntAltMike Hall Of Fame

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    You still need to run wires from the X00-X01 unused splitter ports to the X06-X07 splitters, or you will simply not have the signal strength margin you need for reliable distribution.

    FYI, I got my Level 3 installer certificate back before they even thought of numbering them (1996, as I recall)
     
  13. slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    What's your goal for getting "better signal"? The standard dish should give you a perfect signal on all TVs if the system is set up properly. Seeing pixelation in some rooms has nothing to do with the signal quality coming from the dish, but instead is something to do with the hardware/layout of the rest of the system.

    Using a bigger dish to solve that problem would be like finding you can't hammer a screw into a board and thinking "I need a bigger hammer!"
     
  14. AntAltMike

    AntAltMike Hall Of Fame

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    I don't know. A late friend of mine used to swear that the threads on lag bolts were just for taking them out.
     
  15. TOPAZ1

    TOPAZ1 New Member

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    Thanks to all for your inputs, they were really informative.
     
  16. TOPAZ1

    TOPAZ1 New Member

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    Just an update (two weeks) since the last tweaking our dish we dont have any more problems, the installation is still the same as in the diagram shown at the start of this thread.
     
  17. AntAltMike

    AntAltMike Hall Of Fame

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    But you DO still have "problems", you just do not have immediate reports of symptoms. Your signal at the end of your runs is too weak to reliably service those receivers. If you can't run the bypass wires to the X06/7 location as I had suggested, which admittedly is often very difficult, then at the very least, you can drop in, say, -16dB directional couplers at X00/1, -12dB couplers at X02/3, and then use -9dB directional couplers to source X04/5, and use the two 2-way splitters at the far end. Believe me, it will make a big, big difference as far as signal strength is concerned.
     
  18. TOPAZ1

    TOPAZ1 New Member

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    Thanks for your advice, the first instance I have problems I am going to put the directional couplers as you suggested as I cant run any cable there. Buy the way where I can buy the directional couplers and does it needs external power supply, if it does than I have now way to run power also.
     
  19. AntAltMike

    AntAltMike Hall Of Fame

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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    Solid Signal will sell you Blonder Tongue DCL-1XX taps for $4.99 each. Stock #6426-XX. The XX values are 08, 12, 16, 20, 24, and 28. The larger the number, the "weaker" the tap, meaning it passes through more of the signal.

    Shooting from the hip, you can put a -20dB tap at rooms X00/01, a -16dB tap at rooms X02/03, a -12 tap at rooms X04/05, and a -8 tap at rooms X06/07. $60 total.

    Here is a link to their product page. Blonder Tongue Single Output Directional Tap 1 Pack (DCL-1XX) from Solid Signal
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2018
  20. AntAltMike

    AntAltMike Hall Of Fame

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    Actually, this is a better product for taps on the SWiM distribution lones, because it is "rated" to pass signals down to 2 MHz, and the SWiM receiver lines have a return signal frequency of 2.3MHz. Plus, they fit in single gang electrical boxes, where that is important. [​IMG]
     

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