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How does the HD picture quality of D* and E* actually compare?

Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by skatingrocker17, Mar 19, 2011.

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  1. Mar 20, 2011 #61 of 142
    harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    It is important not to confuse sharpness on contrast with high quality as those aren't necessarily signs of accurate reproduction. "Punching up" and "contouring" are done by both providers to limit bandwidth requirements.

    In the end, it comes down to which looks "better" and that can't be determined by comparing bandwidth.
     
  2. Mar 20, 2011 #62 of 142
    Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    I get pretty decent SD too. Except for BBCA. That's the worst SD picture I've ever seen. And yet, the same program that looks so crappy coming from D* looks pretty good on NetFlix upscaled by my Sammy BD players.

    Rich
     
  3. Mar 20, 2011 #63 of 142
    sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    What's the topic of the thread? HD picture quality...I guess the water is held.
     
  4. Mar 20, 2011 #64 of 142
    veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    :confused: "You know", Law & Order UK is one of the shows I "zoom" to full screen. It isn't HD, but isn't that bad either.
    I found my Sony scales SD so much better than the receiver does.
    When I'm on SD and it's 16:9, I select "original format" [on the receiver] which changes my TV to zoom mode and then cycle the receiver format back to pillarbar for 4:3 SD.
     
  5. Mar 20, 2011 #65 of 142
    P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    You mean PIXELS, not lines ?
     
  6. Mar 20, 2011 #66 of 142
    veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Maybe he's looking at it sideways [so they're rows of pixels]. :lol:
     
  7. Mar 20, 2011 #67 of 142
    P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    Anyway, MPEG have a deal with 8x8 or 4x4 pixles areas, not lines ...

    And only that manufacturer (Tandberg ?) knows how they removing 25% pixels off each line.
     
  8. Mar 20, 2011 #68 of 142
    BattleZone

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    I do work for both companies. That doesn't change what I see, nor does it change objective measurements.

    Dish's SD is better than DirecTV's.

    DirecTV's HD is better than Dish's.

    Both of those are facts. On a quality TV, side-by-side, you can see the difference, and all of the things we know about how the signals are sent (resolution, bitrate, number of channels per transponder) all match up with those user perceptions.

    At the same time, nearly everyone agrees that the differences are probably not great enough for MOST people to choose one carrier over the other based on PQ. Other factors will be more important to most people (content available, equipment/features, cost, etc.).
     
  9. Mar 20, 2011 #69 of 142
    rkr0923

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    Still boils down to what your display is no matter where the source comes from. Take 2 TV's of different models with the same source, your get different opinions on which is best looking.
     
  10. Mar 20, 2011 #70 of 142
    SomeRandomIdiot

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    When you reduce 1920x1080 to 1440 to 1080, you are reducing the pixels and thus the lines being sent out as the 1080 is consistent.

    For example 16X9 1920x1080:

    1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9.0.1.2.3.4.5.6
    1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9.0.1.2.3.4.5.6
    1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9.0.1.2.3.4.5.6
    1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9.0.1.2.3.4.5.6
    1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9.0.1.2.3.4.5.6
    1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9.0.1.2.3.4.5.6
    1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9.0.1.2.3.4.5.6
    1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9.0.1.2.3.4.5.6
    1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9.0.1.2.3.4.5.6

    Essentially becomes looses 25% of the lines (or the equivalent of every 4th line) 1440x1080:

    1.2.3.5.6.7.9.0.1.3.4.5
    1.2.3.5.6.7.9.0.1.3.4.5
    1.2.3.5.6.7.9.0.1.3.4.5
    1.2.3.5.6.7.9.0.1.3.4.5
    1.2.3.5.6.7.9.0.1.3.4.5
    1.2.3.5.6.7.9.0.1.3.4.5
    1.2.3.5.6.7.9.0.1.3.4.5
    1.2.3.5.6.7.9.0.1.3.4.5
    1.2.3.5.6.7.9.0.1.3.4.5

    Reducing the lines by 25%, which is the point I was trying to get across.

    Its then shown back stretched (or padded) something like

    1..2..3..5..6..7..9..0..1..3..4..5
    1..2..3..5..6..7..9..0..1..3..4..5
    1..2..3..5..6..7..9..0..1..3..4..5
    1..2..3..5..6..7..9..0..1..3..4..5
    1..2..3..5..6..7..9..0..1..3..4..5
    1..2..3..5..6..7..9..0..1..3..4..5
    1..2..3..5..6..7..9..0..1..3..4..5
    1..2..3..5..6..7..9..0..1..3..4..5
    1..2..3..5..6..7..9..0..1..3..4..5

    to get the 16:9 Ratio back.

    This is overly simplified, but should get the concept/point across.

    Think of an Eye Chart on a Doctor's Wall. It doesn't matter on the big Things.....where it shows up is in the small print/details.
     
  11. Mar 20, 2011 #71 of 142
    Hutchinshouse

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    You must have a slow internet connection.

    On my Apple TV, SD and HD smoke DIRECTV's SD quality. It's not even close. Flat-out, my internet video annihilates DIRECTV SD on my 52".
     
  12. Mar 20, 2011 #72 of 142
    SomeRandomIdiot

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    If your TV does not do 1920x1080, does not have 1:1 Pixel mapping (Mitsubishi DLPs and others STILL DO NOT) and/or has reduced resolution when motion is put on the screen, yes, even a full 1920x1080 resolution will be reduced in quality when you view it (Think of trying to read the smallest line on a Doctor's Eye Chart if the nurse was moving the chart instead of having it hang on the wall in a static position).

    Luckily over the past 3-4 years, most TVs will do 1920x1080 and have 1:1 Pixel Mapping. Over the past 2 years, more and more sets are doing much better with resolution using moving objects.
     
  13. Mar 20, 2011 #73 of 142
    veryoldschool

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    5 Mb/s DSL which didn't look all that bad off HULU last week.
    I think the Sony XBR scaler is also fairly good too, which is better than the DirecTV receivers I have.
     
  14. Mar 20, 2011 #74 of 142
    Hutchinshouse

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    Right on, we're both on a Sony XBR.
     
  15. Mar 20, 2011 #75 of 142
    veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    I know when I crop/zoom from the receiver it looks like crap, but doing the same with the XBR doesn't look that bad. :)
    I'd also guess those that only have a scaler the quality of the receivers would complain more about the crappy SD quality, since there really isn't much being sent and requires a lot of scaling to fit a HD screen.
     
  16. Mar 20, 2011 #76 of 142
    SomeRandomIdiot

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    Exactly why everyone needs to personally check which configuration looks better -

    A) Setting the D* IRD to display 720 & 1080 (not checking the 480i/480p boxes) and having the D* IRD do the scaling for SD material

    or

    B) Setting the D* IRD to display 480i/480p/720p/1080 and making sure under HDTV/Video Native is ON and Screen Format is in Original Format so that the TV does the scaling of the SD material.

    Compare both and determine what is best for your situation.

    Every model TV scaler is different and what is right for one person can be different for another (depending on the TV Model and Scaler inside).

    But then again, there is ONLY so much you can do with low PQ 480x480 SD-LITE via D*.
     
  17. Mar 21, 2011 #77 of 142
    TDK1044

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    I agree with this one hundred percent. I have seen the same channels from D* and E* displaying on two identical 46 inch flat screen televisions that have been identically calibrated and are in a controlled engineering environment.

    D* had a very slight edge in overall HD definition....too small to really matter though, and certainly not an issue in terms of which provider to choose. The E* SD pictures were certainly better than D*.
     
  18. Mar 21, 2011 #78 of 142
    good

    good Mentor

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    ... than your rips? If that's what your asking, I suggest you to take a look a this chart (btw, good job, Smith!), with channels biterates:
    http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2645719#post2645719
    and compare it with yours.

    Dish puts theirs HD channels in transponders using DVB-S modulation which is around 40 Mbps total biterate per TP. By simply dividing 40 at channels number, you'll get roughly ('cause it's VBR) biterate per channel. By comparison, Directv is using some proprietary modulation which is somewhere near to DVB-S2 efficiency, so around 60 Mbps. Using the same formula, see the biterates for those HD channels.

    imho, as I've said before, the point is: 1440 is hardly the problem. Because the encoders barely can cope with those (well below average) low biterates, downscaling to 1440 it's a "desperate" measure.
    If the biterates were around 10 Mbps, you'll hardy see any difference.
     
  19. Mar 21, 2011 #79 of 142
    skatingrocker17

    skatingrocker17 Godfather

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    No in general, compared to DirecTV.
     
  20. Mar 21, 2011 #80 of 142
    good

    good Mentor

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    You got your answer right there.
     
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