How perfect is your VIP622 now?

Discussion in 'ViP612/622/722/722K DVR Support Forum' started by DonLandis, May 27, 2006.

Answer each and answer as many that apply.

  1. I've had a VIP622 over a month and I experience absolutely no problems.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. I've had a VIP622 less than a month and I experience absolutely no problems.

    30.6%
  3. My VIP622 reboots spontaneously on its own.

    11.2%
  4. My VIP622 will stutter audio while watching either live or recorded content.

    17.2%
  5. My VIP622 will freeze video for short periods (1-5 seconds) while watching.

    36.6%
  6. My VIP622 locks up and does not respond while I use it. Manual need to reboot to correct this locku

    20.9%
  7. My HDMI output has failed. Not sure what to do to fix it.

    22.4%
  8. I have had to swap out my VIP622 to correct a problem and the problem seems fixed.

    11.2%
  9. I have swapped out my VIP622 to correct a problem but the same or a different problem is happening w

    8.2%
Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. DonLandis

    DonLandis Hall Of Fame

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    Dec 17, 2003
    Please understand this poll is for personal, selfish reasons only. However, the poll results may assist others who are contemplating the same decision I am-

    I have a 921 and must say that for several months now it is working 100% perfect! Never misses a timer setting, I have excellent guide data on OTA channels. No sluggishness, no spontaneous reboots in the middle of a show or recording of a show, and no hiccups of audio or video. PQ is locked in and solid. It just works 100%, what can I say more.

    But now E* has just added 3 new HDTV channels I have been waiting for for quite some time. Starz HD, NG HD and HGTV HD. But I understand I need to have a 622 to receive them as they are on MP4 only.

    So my question for you all is- How perfect is your 622? I once askesd a similar question and used the term- "intolerable bugs" Unfortunately, while I cannot tolerate a DVR that will reboot in the middle of a show losing 10 minutes of the program, I cannot tolerate a DVR that stutters video and audio, I cannot tolerate a DVR that permanetly losesw all picture on the HDMI output, many of you responded to me that you tolerate that sort of behavior for whatever personal reason. I respect that and I hope you can understand that I feel dealing with that sort of behavior is not tolerable. So here goes- I tried to compose the questions in the poll to take subjectivity out and maybe I can get a feel for how many of you are experience specific issues. I just waht to get an idea of the probability of me having to deal with the many 622 "intolerable" bugs I've been reading about on this forum. Thanks-


    edit- Based on some of the following responses, concerns here are some additional instructions-

    The listed statements in the poll are observations of issues I saw listed by members here. If you observed any of them you would select that item. If you have two or more 622's and only saw the listed issue with one then list it as observed. I understand that a 622 will have very few issues observed if it is rarely used as compared to a 622 that gets much use. The poll is not designed to measure the severity of each issue, just whether it was present at one or more times on one 622 you owned. When reading the statement you have to ask- did I ever see this issue? It's like a switch- Is the light on or off? Don't respond with "I couldn't answer because the light was dim. " The poll is not designed to measure each and every permutation of the main issue. Stuttering video is either observed or video is perfect. If you saw it on your 622 then check that statement. If you never saw it on any channel then don't.

    Please- no bashing. I thank Ron for watching this poll closely. BTW- I consider bashing and cheering for the 622 equally inappropriate for this data collection poll. I thank those who have answered honestly as it may put some perspective on the concerns I have had with making the move to the 622 in the next month or so.
     
  2. olgeezer

    olgeezer Guest

    1,833
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    Dec 5, 2003
    Better'n the wife.:D
     
  3. Ron Barry

    Ron Barry 622 Tips & Trick Keeper

    9,881
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    Dec 10, 2002
    Don,

    If you find those 3 things a lot and you are a power user meaning you are the type that really uses all features of a DVR, the odds with the current version is that you mostly would run into one of issues you mentioned.

    Well dont' get me wrong. I have two 622 and I am very happy I made the switch to the 622 from my 621. However, I personally have the HDMI issue on one of my boxes and I have seen the jitters from time to time on both. If you have zero tolerence for this type of behavior, I would recommend waiting for the next update and then take a poll at this point.

    We all have our own tolerence level and though I experience some of the issues you mentioned to some extent, overall I feel the box is performing to my expectations. Can it improve, Yes and I expect it will. I mentioned at the begining that the MPEG4 move is a paradigm shift in both receiver and content deliver. I also said there will be some pain and issues with an endeavor this big...

    I expected it and actually I from my perspective things have gone smoother than I thought they would.
     
  4. DonLandis

    DonLandis Hall Of Fame

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    Dec 17, 2003
    Ron, this is more of a data collection than a subjective opinion of what one finds acceptable or not. Depending on the severity of the problem as in numbers of people experiencing them will make my decision as to when to upgrade, but as stated earlier, I also have new incentive to "tolerate" some degree of inconvenience with the new channels. As such, one could say the rules of my game change. This is why I felt the need for data on the numbers as opposed to opinions and personal tolerance which is indeed a complex individual thing. For you to suggest waiting another month indicates you either know they have all the issues mention fixed and waiting to release the fix in a month or that you are just guessing. Consider the track record of experience of the 921. The intolerable bugs with that took 2 years to fix, by my standards but with the 921, I knew I would be beta testing for awhile and chose to accept that. For the 622, I need more than just a promise of wait one more month. Remember what I said before NAB- I would be ready to make the move to a 622 in mid to end of May. Here we are but back then the consensus was the bugs would be all better by now. The poll will tell me if this is just a few isolated problems or it is wide spread. As I said, I just want the data, no real opinions. I hope this further explains my "selfish" request for this kind of poll. :)

    Finally, I should also add that once I do have the 622 installed the poll will give me a clue as to how long to keep the 921 as a backup before sending it in for a $200 credit. Recall, I kept my 6000 with 169time onboard for 16 months before pulloing it out as the 921 matured.

    The poll is ongoing. no expiration date. As such the poll may need to be reinstated for future accuracy for the reasons you stated. I'll do that if I'm still in a quandry. If I'm onboard with a VIP622, Then somone else can surely do their poll.
     
  5. dougmcbride

    dougmcbride AllStar

    91
    0
    Apr 17, 2005
    No issues for me. I went through the teething pains with the 942 and in my estimation, the 622 is ahead of the 942 issue-wise on the same timeline.

    Doug
     
  6. Allin4greeN

    Allin4greeN Mentor

    44
    0
    Aug 1, 2005
    I answered "over a month, no problems" based on the criteria established as being an "intolerable" issue. However, my 622 could not be characterized as being perfect.

    My Version C 622 experiences MPEG4 related issues with audio sync and signal drop/pixelation on HD LiL's, and it had the OTA DVR disappearing timer issue (fixed with the mapdown disable work-around). My box also runs "hot," and I've added a laptop cooler for additional ventilation (high: 138, Low: 105, Avg: 120). I haver never tried HDMI (never will).

    I upgraded from a 942 that was rock solid. Overall, I'm glad that I upgraded and I hope that some of the "minor issues" wil be worked out in the very near future.
     
  7. SingleAction

    SingleAction Legend

    171
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    Apr 29, 2005
    Hey Don!

    Do you equate being "selfish" with "bashing"?:grin:
     
  8. Ron Barry

    Ron Barry 622 Tips & Trick Keeper

    9,881
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    Dec 10, 2002
    Actually when I replied Don the poll was not up yet. Figured when you said poll you were looking for people to chim in with experiences. As for knowing when the next release is, I never stated a timeline. I merely was saying that since these the issues you stated as not tolerable is present, waiting till the next update might make some sense to get a better gage on the progress. 64K questions is when that will occur and I am always the first one to chime in... "When the believe it is ready".

    I will be sure to vote..

    Just to clarify, bashing and selfish are two seperate things in my opinion. However, these type of threads can lead down that road so I can assure you this thread will be watched carefully.

    I understand where Don is coming from and I understand his concern. So I hope people will vote and chime in. There is always a fine line between bashing and stating concerns. This post is a good example of stating concerns and opinions of what you consider not acceptable while not tossing rocks.
     
  9. guruka

    guruka Troublemaker/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

    341
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    Dec 27, 2003
    The poll questions don't work for me.

    I've had my 622 over a month (Rev D) and it has been almost perfect. No spontaneous reboots, no HDMI problems. Great PQ (better than my 921) and the timers work perfectly. It can handle 5 video streams simultaneously (record three whilst watching two others) and the software is MUCH better than my old 921 in every way. I'm only seeing two problems:

    1. Intermittent "stuttering" video i.e., lost frames. The audio is fine. A single skip-back button press on the remote fixes this immediately.

    2. The caller ID popup only comes up about 5% of the time.

    That's it. I have no regrets whatsoever about trading in my 921 (which was working fine) since this is simply a much, much better receiver.

    .....G
     
  10. boylehome

    boylehome Hall Of Fame/Supporter

    2,143
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    Jul 16, 2004
    I never would have thought in a thousand years that you would have such a positive report regarding the 921 having followed all your previous posts.

    The 622 has much nicer features than the 921. In comparing the 622 to the 921 for out the gate, time in service, the 622 out performs the 921. The 622 has much fewer problems than did the 921. The 622 is not perfect but I'm confidant that future software releases will make things better.

    Your poll did not quite cover some common problems. Robotic/jittery video is a common problem with the 622 when it has been in use for several hours and when several timers are recording. If the memory gets to a critical point, it doesn't take much for an auto reset to occur. Audio sync is marginal at times. The OTA tuner is not nearly as friendly as the 921 tuner but it scans and locks quite fast. the OTA tuner is stubborn and if there is a slight PSIP problem, it loses the lock, thus no video/audio; it is next to impossible to get the channel back. However, when the yellow screen appears showing the signal loss, it has a help option, and when selecting it, the information tells you to contact your OTA provider for help. Every time the OTA problems are with the broadcaster, but most PSIP tuners will work with the PSIP problem therefore the broadcaster engineers try to say the problem is with the 622 (IT AINT!). The Closed Captioning sucks!

    As compared to the 921, the 622 does a much better job with recording and keeping DVR events. Until E* started doing the major channel shuffle, I had no timer problems but a short loss of signal at the start of the program will result in nothing and a past event timer that says it did the job. As compared to the HR10-250 the 622 is very fast in channel changing, EPG selection, etc. The EPG is easily reloaded if a problem occurs unlike the 921. The 622 lacks some of the nicer features that come with the HR10-250.

    I have one 622 (version A) that is getting swapped out because it has a corrupted lock channel problem, combined with the favorite lists which for no special reason, fully populate. I think that this corruption occurred when I was having a channel lock problem with sick PISP from a broadcaster and had the sub-channel locked out. I can not get this channel to go away, even when it is removed from the tuner, it is still listed.

    I believe that a bad batch of 622's were given to customers and it appears in posts that those problems are severe, like constant resets. E* is good at getting the bad receivers replaced.
     
  11. GeeWhiz1

    GeeWhiz1 Legend

    127
    1
    Dec 6, 2005
    I have to agree with guruka. This poll doesn't work for me because it doesn't give any way to indicate the severity of problems.

    I have had my 622 for over a month. I have had 2 instances of stuttering video in the entire time that I have had it. And, I just had the first instance of the lip sync problem on my ABC LiL last night.

    That's it. No other problems.

    So if I use your poll honestly, I cannot say that my machine has been "flawless". But with all the potential reasons for the 3 instances that I have had, I will not fault the machine. It beats the heck out of the performance of my old 921.

    I don't consider us as "power" users, but we do use most of the features frequently.
     
  12. Mike D-CO5

    Mike D-CO5 Hall Of Fame

    3,099
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    Mar 11, 2003
    I suffer from audio/video stuttering just about every day on my main 622. It gets a lot of use with multiple timers firing on all 3 tuners. Audio drop outs have returned but only on the Dish hd locals. But no hdmi problems or spontaneous reboots either. The second 622 in the bedroom has had no video stuttering but it gets minor use. Mostly decorator shows for the wife and kiddie shows for my son.

    ** IF they would just fix the audio/video stuttering I would be perfectly happy with the 622.
     
  13. tnsprin

    tnsprin Hall Of Fame

    2,130
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    Mar 15, 2003
    Pretty much have to agree. None of the poll items fit some of the problems I've seen, but in general the problems are liveable, and much less a problem the with my 921's.

    Problems seen
    1-- occasional Problesm (cc stopped working and incomplete upgrade when l357 was loaded) requiring reboot. Had 2 of these in a month and a half of fairly heavy use.
    2--OTA timers not working if HD map down is set (well known bug)
    3--Some pixelating on stations notably Satellite Local's (don't think these are really the 622's problem, but they may well be dish's problem).
    4-- Only stuttering I've seen is a fraction of a second just after a skip forward or apparent lost of signals. Other receivers I have or have had did other funny things when they lost sync (half green screen, black screen,etc). The brief stutter is minor.
     
  14. tigerhonaker

    tigerhonaker Cool Member

    25
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    May 8, 2006
    Had mine for less than a (Month). :) It has worked alot better than I thought it would. That was because I was reading the different Threads/Post and seeing the different problems Members were having with their 622's.

    In my case I had a Paraclipse 14' C-Band Dish and compared to it this is like a Miracle Machine to me. :D

    I signed up with E* for all the HD Platinum Package as well as the Locals and there HD Channels. This is just Great I think.

    No HDMI on my system, I chose to use the Audio Digital Optical Cable and the Transparent Component Cables for Video. Everything is just Lovely.

    I Likeeeeee :D 2-Thumbs Up !!!!!

    BTW, just thought of one thing. We had to do a remote position for the antennae to work. When it was mounted to the back of the 622 it would not work. just guessing here, but I guess to much interference from the other components in the rack. Added cable relocated antennae and everything was beautiful from then on.

    Terry
     
  15. lujan

    lujan Hall Of Fame

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    Feb 10, 2004
    I remember some of the names on this forum from the 921 thread back when I started viewing this forum more than two years ago (guruka, don). I was not able to answer the poll because none of the answers fit my situation.

    I have had the 622 for more than a month and have had relatively few problems. It's like night and day when comparing the problems the 921 had with the problems the 622 has. My 622 only spontaneously rebooted once on the day I got it and I haven't seen it do that since. The other two problems that I've noticed are:

    1) The local digital NBC satellite station sometimes has no video or audio. A reboot solves that issues and I haven't figured out why it happens. The other two local digital stations (ABC and FOX) work fine.

    2) The machine gun sound when FF or RW occurs quite frequently but it not considered a showstopper for me. Others may be referring to this as audio stutter.

    I still remember all of the 921 problems and this is nothing compared to those. I am connected via HDMI and have not had any problems (knock on wood). I have a Mitsubishi DLP set and haven't heard about problems with this brand and HDMI. I am paying about $5.00 more per month because I went from two receivers to only the 622 (using an HDMI splitter to the TV in the bedroom).
     
  16. DonLandis

    DonLandis Hall Of Fame

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    Dec 17, 2003
    I think many of you are trying to read more into this than it is designed to do. I have posted an edit in the first post to help those who say- "I can't answer the yes no questions because the statement is not worded exactly the way I experinece the problem." I apologize for not making a set of poll statements that exactly match everyone's concern but it is my best effort to quantify the observations of those issues I felt would bother me.

    BTW- At some point in time I will be reviewing the poll and I have a spreadsheet to tabulate the reults. At that time, I will also review all the listed posts and anyone who has said- "I was not able to answer e.g. yes to I had video stutter or my 622 spontaneously rebooted because I only saw it once or I just have it and don't mind it" etc. then be warned I will add your vote to my poll spreadsheet as "having observed the issue" IMO, if you had the problem enough to remember you had it, then you observed it and should have checked that category. The forum gives you the choice to respond to the poll questions or list them in the thread. You just make the job of tabulation for me easier if you just answer the questions in the poll.
     
  17. tigerhonaker

    tigerhonaker Cool Member

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    May 8, 2006
    Hi Don,

    It is interesting when you do a "Poll" the answers you get and don't get from it. I am a member of some (Hybrid Automobile Forums) and when there is a "Poll" on them you get the same results you speak of here. I being one of the Mods. on one of those Forums try to get members to just keep it simple and choose the {Closest} answer that is Listed. However it always ends up the same way. I finally after being on the Forums for some time started going in and reading the Members Profiles and at that Point I found out why this always happened. Some of the Members are Tech. Guys/Gals and some being Engineers and some Scientist as well as other very {Intelligent} Members. I mention this because these members always wanted a (Very Specific) choice in the Poll know matter how many options were offered. Just the Nature of these Members. Makes it hard to keep the Poll simple but this is True however. I am only Posting this in the hopes that it might give some added insight into why Don you are not getting the "Simple Responces" that you really wanted just to give you an idea as to how and what New 622 Owners were experencing with their New 622's. Hope this is of some Tiny Help. :)
     
  18. DonLandis

    DonLandis Hall Of Fame

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    Dec 17, 2003
    Thanks tigerhonaker- I spent two years studying scientific data collection and then taught the training of it through programs with the Florida Seagrant and UF. In addition to what you said, there is also a political motivation that enters the picture. In many cases we saw respondents will desire to not post an observation because they feel it does not represent the outcome they desire to have with the data. Respondents will achieve the tainting of the data in many ways. one way is to fail to post a negative observation if the respondent is a proponent of the purpose for the poll and another will answer in the negative if they are against the purpose. As a data technician, you have to be aware that all these issues will be present and look for them. In this poll thread it is easy because the politically motivated respondents often admit this in their posts. In the studies I worked with in the past the motivated responses were much harder to extract. In this poll I am aware of two political motivations- One would be those who post in the negative because they hate Charlie or they have not had a favorable experience with a CSR of E* rep. and the other would be from those who feel a need to paint a rosie picture of E* presence in the industry. I call this the grupie syndrom. I will be on the lookout for both. The forum post rules makes this easy. In Reef research we had the groupies who would support any reef enhancement program no matter what even when it became obvious some of these did more harm than good. As a data technician you just have to understand that in an open poll you will have the three categories of respondents that will affect your outcome. If possible, make rthe adjustments to improve the accuracy of the tabualtion.
     
  19. tnsprin

    tnsprin Hall Of Fame

    2,130
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    Mar 15, 2003
    If you look at my responses and your questions you will see that none apply.
    I've seen problems so the first two don't apply.
    No reboots.
    No stuttering while watching. Only after a ff or rev.
    No freeze video, but some pixelating.
    Reboots i've done had nothing to do with no response, rather with some features misbehaving.
    Current unit is not using hdmi. They second one I have on order will connect hdmi to DVI.
    And last two were about swapping

    You needed other options like, had to reboot to correct a problem, or had other problems.
     
  20. Allin4greeN

    Allin4greeN Mentor

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    Aug 1, 2005
    IMHO, teasing out respondent bias in assessment measures takes a significant amount of questions, and careful planning. I see 2 control questions to correlate with 5 experimental questions... no matter how you rationalize it, this measure should not be referred to as "scientific" in any way. I think the "political motivations" you are seeing can, in part, be attributed to a flawed measurement design. I use flawed to describe the medium and inherent limitations of the medium, not as a personal attack on the questionnaire's designer or its questions. I'm not sure valid/reliable measures can be established for assessment of the 622 in this medium, there are simply too many variables to control for... and controlling for only a few variables means little in the final analysis.

    I think the quetionnaire can, and probably will achieve what you first proposed as the goal for assessment in this case... that is, you were only interested in the issues you present as experiemental questions because they were most prominant to you. If anything, that identifies tester bias, not respondent bias.

    As a questionnaire based on making a personal decision, affecting control over the responses, whether they are quantitative or qualitative, seems rather unecessary...

    Just my $.02
     
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