HR-24 good for the foreseeable future?

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by cwdonahue, Apr 20, 2019.

  1. Apr 26, 2019 #61 of 100
    SledgeHammer

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    MTBF on a typical consumer hard drive is 1M hours or more. Don't confuse your OS getting corrupted with the hard drive actually having a mechanical failure. Bad sectors in a modern hard drive is pretty rare in a "stable" environment. If you have unstable power, that's a different story.
     
  2. Apr 26, 2019 #62 of 100
    Rich

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    I never said the HDD works but it is slower. What I said was the degradation of the HDD slows down the HR. Where you got the idea that this is about HDDs that actually slow down and cause problems is beyond me. But I might have written something that led you to believe that. Kinda like someone mentioning a bearing and getting an essay about fluid bearings that has little to do with the problem.

    Rich
     
  3. Apr 26, 2019 #63 of 100
    Rich

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    Did you ever see me actually write that? I know the stuff on the HDD is what causes the problem. Remember all the times I've put new HDDs on problematic HRs and the problems go away? Think that's a clue?

    Rich
     
  4. Apr 26, 2019 #64 of 100
    SledgeHammer

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    What me and Slice are saying is that if you take the same drive, *completely* wipe it then put it back, it'll work the same as a new drive. If you put a brand new drive in, or even a used Windows drive, the DVR is just going to reformat it and start from scratch. The reset and clear my box commands don't go that far. There is a fundamental difference between calling a "Database.Clear()" function vs creating a brand new one from scratch. Clearing a corrupted database can still leave it in a corrupted state. That's also why people are seeing speed increases when they throw in an old Windows drive from a PC they upgraded to SSD. In that case you are starting with a fresh everything.

    Sorry, but hard drives do not get noticeable slower over time at the hardware level. SSDs will degrade over time, but again, its not speed, its reliability.

    If it starts developing a bunch of bad sectors, that's a different story... next time you have to replace a hard drive, throw it on a PC and check out if it has bad sectors. If not, nuke it and throw it back in ;).

    The other poster that implied a 7200rpm is going to slow down to 7100rpm over time is just not correct.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2019
  5. Apr 26, 2019 #65 of 100
    slice1900

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    No, this is not true. The magnetic properties of the platters do not "weaken" AT ALL. Magnetic materials don't "wear out".

    Bad sectors are the ONLY thing that will cause an older drive to slow down, but most drives these days will never see a bad sector during their useful life.
     
  6. Apr 26, 2019 #66 of 100
    slice1900

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    I wasn't replying to you with these, I was replying to 'dreadlk' who seems to have an idea that the drive mechanism itself slows down due to age, which is totally untrue.

    The only reason you haven't been able to "turn back the clock" on a drive in your HR24 and make it "work like new" is that you didn't know how to properly erase it in a way that would cause the HR24 to treat it like a drive it has never seen before. Though that's something you probably don't care about anymore, since an SSD is far faster than any hard drive new or not :)
     
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  7. Apr 26, 2019 #67 of 100
    SledgeHammer

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    I just got an email saying they want my HR24-100 back. Darn.
     
  8. Apr 26, 2019 #68 of 100
    Rich

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    I don't remember who posted that but it wasn't me. I never considered that the HDDs' speed would change from its rated speed. One more time, what I said was the HDDs degraded over time and SLOWED the HRs down. I still have to wonder why you put up with that SLOW 24 when all you have to do is pop the top and reformat the HDD. Or put a new one on, they're reasonably priced.

    Rich
     
  9. Apr 26, 2019 #69 of 100
    SledgeHammer

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    I'm not. I upgraded to the HR54 ;). I'm definitely not going to spend any time or money fixing DirecTVs issues. When I was talking to the lady in retention who was (and can you believe this?) pretty knowledgeable actually. She said she had a 24 at home, and yeah, its slow AF.

    If you're asking why I haven't done it over the years, that's a different question ;). I didn't think replacing the HDD would make it fast to the point of being worth the hassle and I kept deciding if I wanted to switch to another provider and/or get the HR54. I think at some point I was waiting for a DECENT 4K setup (one that didn't require 17 boxes for a single TV) and when I saw the HS17 setup, I said no to that. I don't really care about 4K on DirecTV anymore since its not worth anything to me based on the content they (don't) have. I use my Oppo 203 for actual 4K at a fraction of the cost DirecTV wants for LQ "4K".
     
  10. Apr 26, 2019 #70 of 100
    SledgeHammer

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    Based on the return email I got:

    • Any concealed damage that is determined to be the result of abuse may result in a charge to your AT&T account. For any damage disputes, please contact AT&T at 800.288.2020.

    They can get you on that if they feel like it. Yes, they haven't enforced that to this point and maybe they never will, but just another reason for me not to mess with it.

    Good thing they never saw what I did to my old HR20 internals haha... ;).
     
  11. Apr 27, 2019 #71 of 100
    codespy

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    That’s interesting, a while ago, the HR24-100’s were some of the first to be dropped from the return list. I believe this was due to several of them containing the hard to find beveled fans, which expire fairly quickly compared to standard square fans. This was my experience.

    I will also add, of the 6+ HR24-100’s I’ve had since 2010, not one has had a single HD failure. The biggest problem- FANS! I just lost another beveled fan in my garage 24-100 last week that I have to replace. For now, I have a box fan blowing at it when I’m out in the garage, to keep the IRD from overheating.
     
  12. Apr 27, 2019 #72 of 100
    dreadlk

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    Yes your right about the magnetic abilities not degrading. I got that mixed up with data loss due to the drive being inactive for a number of years and the magnetic signatures degrading unless the data is rewritten periodically.

    The part that is correct is that the mechanical parts do wear out and as they do the R/W speed decreases due to increased passes by the heads to deliver or read the data correctly. Bad sectors almost always start sowing up more at this point. The drives eventually break down and start chattering the heads back and forth trying to find their location. Soon after the drive will go as far as to make audible mechanical noise. I threw out at least 8 or more drives like that and they all were dog slow before they eventually died.
     
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  13. Apr 27, 2019 #73 of 100
    mgavs

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    Search “bit rot”, it is real. Been in computers 40 years and have seen it. Data degradation - Wikipedia

    Btw, the first thing I do with a new DVR is replace the drive with a larger, more reliable one.
     
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  14. Apr 27, 2019 #74 of 100
    jimmie57

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    I have read that people had a good experience with a USB fan plugged into these units. It allows you to just leave it on all the time and costs almost nothing to operate.
    I do not have one on mine. I keep mine raised up about 1" and do not put anything on top of it to help keep it cool.
     
  15. Apr 27, 2019 #75 of 100
    Rich

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    Well, I have no problem fixing HRs that don't work correctly. Waiting for D* to do something that they should do is futile. I can't fix the Progress Bar and things like that but I have no problem at all when it comes to putting drives on the HRs. D* is never gonna do that. Think about it, all the 24s are at or near 10 years old. All the HDDs in them are the same age if they haven't been changed out for new drives. Is it any wonder folks are suffering with HRs that do some weird things? Weird things that go away as soon as you put a new drive in/on them? The drives that come in the HRs, all the HRs, are too small. For what I use them for now those small drives are okay but fill them up and you have problems. Spend 7-10 years filling them up and you end up with a bunch of HRs that are slow and cranky.

    Rich
     
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  16. Apr 27, 2019 #76 of 100
    Rich

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    Yup, that's what I do too. The drives in the HRs, all the HRs, are too small for power users.

    Rich
     
  17. Apr 27, 2019 #77 of 100
    Rich

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    Don't recall ever replacing a fan in any HR. I did pull the plug on fan once. The HR heated up very quickly and I got the blue screen. Always wondered how much air those tiny fans moved. Turns out you can't run an HR very long without one.

    Rich
     
  18. Apr 27, 2019 #78 of 100
    SledgeHammer

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    I don't really keep stuff on it. I watch and delete. So probably the outer tracks are brand new lol. I had a previous HR24 die, but it was the unit itself not the HD.

    On my old HR20, I upgraded the drive to a 1TB. The fan died (or so I thought), so I bought a new one and it turned out to be the fan header that died, so I hot wired it into a 12V source on the power board lol.

    I was fighting upgrading to the HR54 because the WHDVR fee insulted my intelligence on one TV ;). I don't usually have a tuner conflict 99% of the time. Also, my current HR24 seems to have some problem with the video output. I get garbage "lines" every once in a while. Not sure if that's the DVR or DirecTV, etc. I'm going to keep my rectangular remote for the HR54. That mini remote looks like it sucks and I've already got tactile memory on the current remote.

    Either way, like you said, its 10 yr old hardware, so its not worth band-aiding imo. Your case is different since they only let you have one HR54 on an account. If they let you have multiple ones, you wouldn't replace all your HR24s?

    Yeah, they aren't going to fix the software. There isn't even a way for you to provide feedback or bugs to engineering. Remember my cloud search problem? I spent months of phone calls trying to get it resolved and I finally got the issue escalated to engineering who pretty much closed it a day later as non reproducible.

    On the other hand, DirecTV negotiates bills with you which is a perk. I told my parents to negotiate their TW bill and they couldn't get squat. Also told a co-worker about negotiating and she tried with her cable company and couldn't get anything either. From what I read on the forums, Dish also doesn't negotiate.

    Cox negotiates a little bit.. I'm getting $10 off on my Gigabit service and about $20 off on the phone. I was looking at jumping to them if DirecTV wouldn't negotiate and it was pretty much in the $70 to $80 range with a 6 tuner DVR.
     
  19. Apr 27, 2019 #79 of 100
    Rich

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    No, I would not want another Genie. Nothing wrong with my 44 except for the GUI. And that's enough to make me go to another room to use a 24. For a few years after I got the 44 I had a 24 under the 44 and used the 44 as a server. I had 12 HRs running at the time. Between the remote (which is very responsive) and the GUI...nah, I don't want another one. Even if I could get another one without cost I wouldn't do it. I like the extra tuners, I like the way the 44 works but I like to watch ball games without that huge Progress Bar and I can do that on my 24s. Again, I have to ask, why didn't the developers just use the 24's GUI as a template?

    Rich
     
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  20. Apr 27, 2019 #80 of 100
    slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    Just peruse the messages being posted here a few years ago from people saying Directv's GUI looked old and out of date when they compared it to the X1 GUI or those on streaming apps or whatever. For some reason too many people like change for the sake of change.

    Were there some things in Directv's GUI that could have been improved? Sure. Did they need to make changes if they wanted consistency between satellite and streaming GUIs since there are some things they do differently? Of course.

    But all that means you just need to change a few things, not change everything and then wait for complaints and keep changing and changing over a couple years like they've done. How many times have they fooled with the size/transparency of that play bar? How many times have they messed with fonts? Only to end up pretty close to where they started...
     

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