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HR20-100 4 years and gone -

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by politzer, Aug 1, 2009.

  1. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    While I agree that that used to be the case, I'd have to disagree today. I have several TVs that are 15 or more years old and running without incident. All TVs younger than 15 years have been replaced at least once except for my LCoS.

    I've also noted more frequent failures of disc players and A/V receivers in the recent past. The use of LSI chips and new assembly technologies was supposed to make them more resistant to failure but it hasn't worked that way for me.
     
  2. IndioinHD

    IndioinHD Cool Member

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    My Sony/Tivo SAT-60 has been in service since 2000, still going strong.
     
  3. Volman

    Volman Godfather

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    I have a total of 2 AVRs,2 VHS,2 DVD players,2 large screen TVs,2 HR-xx,2 desktop PCs,3 APS-UPCs,2 Canon printers,and one eSATA(Seagate FAP).That's 19 total pieces.About 2/3 are 5 years or older.

    The only failures I've had in the past 8-10 years are two PCs,one TV which was repaired successfully,and the Seagate Freeagent Pro Esata 750GB.The common denominator is machines containing hard drives.I also have had numerous cameras(digital).Some are point and shoot and most are DSLRs.I've had no failures from the cameras,lenses,flashes,etc.

    I agree that things are not made like they used to be,but much of the problem is the lack of properly trained techs.The TV that "failed" is a Mitsubishi 65" dlp.The service company diagnosed it as a failed light engine and the extended warranty company replaced the TV.They said I could keep the old one.I found repair instructions on the web and fixed it(no parts were needed).It's better than new.A glass lens needed cleaning because it had become covered with a hazy film.The web geeks figured this out while Mits denies this problem exists.People are way too quick to throw away "dead" electronics and manufacturers add to the mess.Extended warranties are a big part of the problem as it makes us "buy planned obsolesence".Ever deal with a warranty company?That's a trip.
     
  4. Nighthawk68

    Nighthawk68 Godfather

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    My Sony SAT-T60 is also going strong, had it since mid 2001
     
  5. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    They came out in March '06, I think.

    Rich
     
  6. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    I thought they came out first as non-leased units in March of '06 and quickly became a leased unit except for MDUs. I know the folks at the Access Card Team told me that. They were wrong?

    Rich
     
  7. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    I gave all my CRTs, except for a 13" Hitachi, to charities (mostly) a couple years ago. One of them was a Sony that I bought in 1985, still worked fine. I've had the Hitachi since 1986. I think that Sony would have lasted forever. It sure is nice to be able to pick up a TV now. I had a 40" CRT HDTV that weighed over 500 pounds. List price with stand over $4000. Traded that one for having my family room redone. Three years old.

    Rich
     
  8. bobcamp1

    bobcamp1 Icon

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    There ends up being no difference between a hard drive that's powered on all the time and one that is powered on and off. There are multiple failures in each case which average out to be the same MTBF.

    The two things that accelerate a hard drive's death are heat and movement. The DVR doesn't move, but gets hot. Notebook PCs have both issues which is why they die an earlier death.

    For Tivos, the number one failure by far is the hard drive, which makes sense as it's the main moving component (they also run too hot). The power supply is next (due to surges).

    D* DVRs tend to have a more even distribution of electronics and hard drives, which is "unexpected" (that's the polite word anyway). D* DVRs run WAY too hot.
     
  9. politzer

    politzer Legend

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    OK, so I've only had it for 2.5 years - or a bit less. But the CSR did say 4 years - maybe that's where I got hung up on the 4.

    In any case the unit wouldn't boot up any more - tried RBR'ing and would get the blue start up screen, then blank.
     
  10. rsonnens

    rsonnens Legend

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    My only other point of comparison (other than my own HR20-100 failure noted above) was with my Sony T60 only lasted 3 years when the hard drive ate it. I think I got the T60 about the time the started to support both tuners. I still miss the Sony remote on the T60, it was one the best remote DTV remote to date.

    I also have an R10 which as about 3 to 4 years old.
     
  11. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    I have a hard time believing anything a CSR says. And not just the CSRs, their supervisors and the supervisor's supervisor. And I deal with the Protection Plan CSRs who used to be a lot better than most CSRs.

    You get more out of this forum than any CSR is liable to give you. Better to come here and get help and find out what is wrong and then tackle the CSRs. They back right down if it sounds as if you know what you're talking about and do what you want them to do in most cases.

    It's just like taking your car in and telling the mechanic exactly what is wrong, what the symptoms are and what you'd like him to do. Pull up to a car shop and tell the mechanic, "My cars not running right, do whatever you have to do." and you'll end up with a whopping big bill.

    I wouldn't believe that 4 year mark one bit. They'll die when they die.

    Rich
     
  12. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    I don't think there really is a "point of comparison". Kinda like cars. I just gave my '88 Bonneville to a charity. Bought the car new and had it for 21 years. Broke my heart when it finally came time for it to go. 21 years of reliable service. I never expected that.

    Rich
     
  13. dreadlk

    dreadlk Hall Of Fame

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    I am not saying that if you leave the drive on all the time it's a guaranteed that your drive will last longer.

    What I am saying is that I have about 20-25 Hard Drives at work and the one's in the Office servers are just regular Seagate and WD drives, they all have typically lasted a lot longer than any of the work station drives which get turned On/Off daily.

    Just before I posted this I PM'd a Moderator friend on a PC forum and he was telling me that the Head design has not really changed much over the years, the basic design is the same if not just slimmed down. He also says that the majority of drive deaths are still caused by heads damaging platters and that the electronics do fail but not as much as they use to.

    So IOW he is saying the opposite of what you said, Platter Damage is more of a problem now than before. Makes sense if you think about it. The electronics have not needed to evolve much over the years except for interface design, but the Platters have been getting denser and denser so the chance of failure is most likely higher. Oh and BTW I did say that Heat is a huge issue! The number one killer of all electronics is heat. It kills hard drives within months, it kills Electrolytic capictors within a year or two and it's not very fiendly to switching power supplies.


     
  14. dreadlk

    dreadlk Hall Of Fame

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    That’s why I stopped buying Sony equipment years ago.
    I use to buy exclusively Sony equipment when possible, until I noticed that everything I owned from them stopped working after 2-3 years.
    Including:

    3 XBR Trinitron TV's.
    1 Laptop
    1 HT Surround sound Amplifier

    None of them lasted past 3 Years.

    Sony is just too much on the Bleeding Edge for my taste! Yes they make the smallest best looking high tech stuff, but it never lasts.



     
  15. bobcamp1

    bobcamp1 Icon

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    So how many hard drives are in the office servers vs. the number of workstations you have? Only 20 total? Same model numbers for all of them? Plus, the servers are at the same temp. all the time, may be better cooled, and don't get any sudden vibrations.

    As I said before, it doesn't really doesn't make a difference whether you power cycle it or leave it on. The MTBF is statistically the same.

    However, the hard drive should be the #1 failure mechanism in a DVR by far. I'm surprised no one here suspects the hard drive for their funny HRxx behaviors.
     
  16. Stuart Sweet

    Stuart Sweet The Shadow Knows!

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    That's the first time I heard that. I know that no one here had one before Earl Bonovich... and here's some words from him:

    2/9/06:

    2/24/06:
    7/7/06 :
    8/11/06: Earl's review of the HR20-700 is the first published.
    http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=61862
     
  17. dreadlk

    dreadlk Hall Of Fame

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    Office servers have 6 drives total and then there are about 14 workstations, each only has one drive but is backed up 5 times per week onto external WD drives.

    Server Temps are the same, they are just in the room like all the other workstations, they are all built by me, typically built around Asus MB and WD HD's (sata). Dual Core in one, Quad in the other , Raid drives mirrored, then a third external drive for backup. It gets the Job done and has been very reliable. The only times over the last 10 years that they have gone down is me replacing old parts, upgrading MB/CPU and fan replacements etc. almost everything has been upgraded at least once.

    I dont think anybody is going to win the debate about HD being left on or turning it off, since this is a Topic that is debated all over the Internet.
    The biggest problem is that most people don't own a hard drive long enough to compare, and on the flip side the rates of random failures etc is so high it's hard to pin it down.

    MTBF means just about nothing with hard drives since they dont seem to have any relevance to what people see in the real world, but thats a whole other debate.

    I can only say that in my experience, I have seen a lot of work station HD's die and almost always the person using the PC says "I was just using it yesterday, it worked fine then I switched it off and now it won't boot up"
    Most of the time I notice that the drive is now making the famous clunk a de clunk sound

    That why I say that almost all the failures I have seen occur sometime during powering down and booting up.


     
  18. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    In a TiVo or Ultimate TV DVR context, you would be correct. I was always changing HDDs in them. But, the HRs seem to have a very low incidence of HDD problems. They will slow down if you have an eSATA on them and reach 30% to 20% Available.

    I don't think the HDDs are the cause of the slow reports we get. What seems like an awful lot of people complaining about slowness is an awful lot of posts by the same people complaining about slowness. Factor out the 100s and there are really not that many reports about slowness.

    As to their "funny" behavior, apparently a multitude of things can cause that. I have a 23 that drives itself nuts when the remote is in the RF mode. Can't blame that on an HDD and you'd have to see what happens when I try to use it in RF mode to believe it. A perfectly stable HR in IR mode turns into a raging monster of a DVR in RF mode.

    I had four 20-700s in one room that would reboot randomly and constantly. That sounds like an HDD problem, no? Wasn't. Was loose connections on my ground block. The installer apparently put the fittings on the ground block with his fingers and finger tight connections usually unscrew themselves. As soon as I snugged them up, the reboots disappeared.

    Rich
     
  19. pdawg17

    pdawg17 Hall Of Fame

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    I've not had a DVR break yet (knock on wood) but this thread is preparing me...

    With leased DVRs do we get them replaced for free other than shipping or do we have to pay for a replacement if it has been "awhile"?
     
  20. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    I'll agree about the Sony's mechanical problems. The VCRs were terrible in that respect, but every time one went south, I'd buy another Sony. Best PQ in a VCR since the Beta-Max. I had a lot of trouble with two HD Sony CRTs too. But you couldn't beat the PQ on them either. The A/V systems I have are Sonys except for one Onkyo and I have had zero problems with them.

    Kinda puts you between a rock and a hard place when you want to buy a Sony product. They'll usually outperform any other platform, but you have to put up with the mechanical aspects, you just know you're gonna have them. Sort of like buying a Jaguar. Good performance, great looks, but you gotta have a good mechanic to keep them running. If Sony made cars I wouldn't buy one. I've been afraid of their computers too.

    Rich
     

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