HR20 - ATSC/OTA Discussion

Discussion in 'DIRECTV Tips and Resources' started by Earl Bonovich, Dec 2, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    42,739
    361
    Dec 9, 2006
    Since your going to be looking at it, you might just pick the one that looks pleasing.
    Any form of rabbit ears will work for you [a coat hanger isn't that much of a joke].
    As a tech, I like the look of the one you said was "no go" because it looks like an antenna.
    The one in your link is covered so it's hard to see what's in it [rabbit ears], but should work fine in your location. I doubt you would need the remote control, as one posting said "point it at 140 degrees" and your set.
     
  2. HDSeeker

    HDSeeker Cool Member

    19
    0
    Dec 22, 2006
    Georgia has the update for OTA !
    Received 4:00 AM 12/20.
    Working like a champ.
     
  3. Tiger Tony

    Tiger Tony Godfather

    290
    0
    Dec 16, 2006
    I've been receiving OTA signal great with OTA hooked directly to the TV.

    OK, I got the latest update with OTA enabled Wednesday morning (I'm located in the New Orleans area). I hooked it to the HR20 box and ran the setup. It shows where it located all my local channels in the guide just like it is supposed to do. My local 4-1(cbs), 12-1(pb), 54-1 come in great. I get the dreaded "searching for signal" message on 8-1(fox), 26-1(abc) and also on some other channels that I never watch anyway.

    I tried searching the forum but I couldn't find anything specific to this problem. I did get a "private message" from another local dbs'er telling me that he has this problem. I also read over at AVSforums that they have several pages of discussions about my exact problem here on the DBSforum, BUT darn if I can find it.

    Anyway, What do I do now? Do I just disconnect it from the HR20 and go back to watching OTA through the TV or will the problem it be fixed soon ? I'm very confused........thanks for your help!
     
  4. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    42,739
    361
    Dec 9, 2006
    The HR needs a strong signal. Your TV doesn't. Point the antenna, get a bigger one, add a preamp, or as you said connect it back to your TV.
     
  5. gcisko

    gcisko I am Iron Man!

    1,672
    0
    Sep 27, 2006
    At one time I questioned why I would want OTA if I were getting locals through the satellite. Many people provided the answers. Better quality was the main reason.

    So yesterday I decide to unhook my OTA from my TV and put it on the HR20 and see what happened. To my surprise, every channel I got with my TV, I got with the HR20. I really like the power meter on the HR20. My TV has bars to show strength. I do not get 7-1 OTA on my TV, (It is actually marginal) but at least the HR20 shows the strength to be ~25%-30%. 2-1 which no one gets is just dead with 0%. But I now realize that I have ~40 more local channels that I can record. So this is an awesome feature of the unit. The channel I missed most was the local PBS digital channel WTTWD 11-1. I always thought that this channel was doing 1080i for real without compression as it has always looked far better. I recorded NOVA on this channel and it worked fine. In fact the guide added the additional local channels just fine.

    So now bug report. But a happy HR20 OTA user. I am now contemplating a new antenna for my attic. I have a huge monster normal TV antenna sitting between the rafter. It just happens to be facing 90 degrees toward the chicago towers. I am also ~32 miles from the towers according to antennaweb.org. This website lists you local channels, distance from them and the angle you need to point your antenna.

    Anyway the antenna I am looking at is the Phillips MANT950. It is supposed to have a range of 40 miles. It should be much more managable than my existing TV antenna which is just sitting in the rafters.

    As for the quality issue? It was not as huge as some people made it to be (in my opinion). So for me it is still undecided. My wife said she could not tell the difference between OTA and satellite local HD programing.
     
  6. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    42,739
    361
    Dec 9, 2006
    With the updates MPEG-4, a couple of revs ago, your PQ between MPEG-4 and OTA HD are so close, it may not be worth it [disagreeing with your wife]. An OTA antenna is always good for a backup if you have "rain fade" from the SAT. The more [bigger] antenna, the better as you will get stronger signals. Basically the more elements [collectors] the better. You will lose some signal strength mounted in the attic over outside on the roof, so this would be another reason to get a bigger one.
     
  7. gcisko

    gcisko I am Iron Man!

    1,672
    0
    Sep 27, 2006
    Yes the backup is worth it I think. I bought the Phillips MANT950 antenna which is supposed to be specifically for HDTV signals, so we will see. It may not be better than what I currently have in the attic (which is you big & honkin antenna with many elements. The problem there is that it is embedded within the rafters and may not be so easy to put at the proper angle.

    Also I was not going to argue with my wife. I did not notice much difference in OTA versus satellite HD either.
     
  8. wlg24

    wlg24 Cool Member

    10
    0
    Dec 23, 2006
    There is nothing wrong with the strength of the signal your getting for WKYCDT 3-1, 3-2, or 3-3 from your off air antenna. The problem is with the ATSC tuners in the new H20-600 and HR20-700. They cannot receive any digital channels broadcast in the VHF lowband range. WKYCDT Cleveland is broadcast on VHF 2(channel3). Neither of the tuners in these receivers cannot process it. I live in Aurora, Ohio and have an identical situation. I have a perfectly aimed Winegard/fringe off air antenna. When connected to my old HR-10 HD DVR receiver, my signal strength is 92%+ on WKYCDT, WJWDT, WOIODT, and WEWSDT. When I connect the feed from that antennal directly to the tuner on my Sony XBR2, the signal is again rock solid, including WKYCDT. If I then connect the very same lead coming from my off air antenna to either the H20-600 or HR20-700 (I have both), they show no signal for WKYCDT. This is a major design flaw. I would never have invested in the new receivers if I knew ahead of time I wouldn't be able to pull in local MPEG4 feed for NBC. I discussed this with a 4th tier technical support person @ Direct TV, and he conceded (finally) that the problem was in the receiver.

    My entire MPEP4 experience stinks. Cleveland, Ohio gets its MPEG4 HD feeds for the local channels from the 103 degree satellite (not 99b). My dish is properly aimed and my signal strength is fine for all 5 satellites, but all of my local MPEG4 feeds freeze & break up continuously. I've done everything to find a solution. But there is none... because the problem lies in the receivers themselves. The technology sucks. These receivers were prematurely released, we're all paying the price for it, and there's nothing we can do about it except revert back to the older receivers, or switch to Time Warner cable. The whole experience has been discouraging.
     
  9. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

    21,192
    187
    Jun 14, 2003
    Salem, OR
    Keep in mind that putting the antenna in the attic cuts its effectiveness by up to 50% depending on your roof construction. If you plan on putting a 40 mile antenna in the attic, it probably isn't going to reach 32 miles.

    I would also recommend against a "HDTV" (UHF) antenna as after all of the moving around of channels settles down, you may have some problems down in the VHF range. At the very least, the antenna needs to be capable of channels 7-51.
     
  10. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

    21,192
    187
    Jun 14, 2003
    Salem, OR
    Are you sure about this?

    This shouldn't be a problem in most markets, but if it is true, they need to start over (and correct that awful internal wiring). There have been a surprising number of stations that have noted their intention to return to or stay in the VHF-low band according to a link that was recently posted.
     
  11. wlg24

    wlg24 Cool Member

    10
    0
    Dec 23, 2006
    It's a fact. Consumers (who have OTA's) of those stations intending to return to VHF-low band are in for a rude awakening if they have HR20-700 or H20-600 receivers and intend to connect their OTA to these receivers. Direct TV told me they are doing consumers a "favor" by building ANY OTA capabilities into their receivers and therefore feel no obligation to correct this problem. "It's not what the receivers were designed for".
     
  12. HDSeeker

    HDSeeker Cool Member

    19
    0
    Dec 22, 2006
    I am currently using the HR20 for OTA
    I am receiving a station that is using vhf 4 and I am getting it at 95%.
    I am not seeing any problem at all with low VHF.
    This station is about 20 miles away and I am using an antenna in the attic.
     
  13. texasbrit

    texasbrit Well-Known Member

    5,592
    174
    Aug 9, 2006
    I really doubt this. First, there are many people using the HR20 (and the H20) for VHF-lo OTA, with no problems. The problem seems to be with stations transmitting on channel 3 and looks like a remapping software problem rather than one with the receiver itself. If so there is no reason why it should not be fixed.

    Not that it matters but there are a rapidly-reducing number of stations wanting to use VHF-lo after the digital transition in 2009. There are now ONLY about 40 stations in the whole of the U.S. expecting to be on VHF-lo after 2009, and some of those may still move to VHF-hi or UHF. WBBM which is one of the problem stations for the HR20 is going to channel 11 in VHF-hi.
     
  14. wlg24

    wlg24 Cool Member

    10
    0
    Dec 23, 2006
    The problem is with VHF 2. No problem with VHF 4 and above. I'm not certain about VHF 3 - can't test it in Cleveland, but VHF 2 is somehow blocked within the receiver. As stated in my previous post, VHF 2 comes in at 95%+ when the coax from my OTA is attached directly to my TV's ATSC tuner, or the ATSC tuner input on my old HR 10. When the SAME COAX is connected to the ATSC inputs of either the H20-600 or HR20-700, there is NO SIGNAL on VHF WKYCDT 2 (channel 3). For VHF 4 and above, the tuners are excellent.
     
  15. Earl Bonovich

    Earl Bonovich Lifetime Achiever

    30,092
    3
    Nov 15, 2005
    I can't speak about VHF-2 or VHF-4....
    But I can for VHF-3

    On my H20-600; I did get WBBM-DT clear as a bell... Which is VHF-3, and I am about 35 miles from the broadcast tower.

    I took my H20-600 offline, when I got the first HR20.
    So unless someone re-did the hardware design on the H20-600... it should still work if I hooked it back up... unless..... something is just wrong with the guide data, and when I entered 2-1 it is looking at the wrong frequency.

    As for the HR20... I don't receive the WBBM-DT right now. My guess it is just the data being fed to the unit...

    There are a couple "flaws" with your theory.
    1) The vendor that made the ATSC tuners... why would they build something not able to see the entire spectrum of ATSC? Let alone, just seeing High-VHF and UHF.... when some of the major markets have used the Low-VHF band for over 5 years now. That would be crazy from an OEM perspective

    2) What could DirecTV possible benefit from "blocking" the lower bands? Since they don't charge anything extra for the HD-SAT based locals

    I would be astronomically shocked if it was a deliberate hardware blocking of those frequencies.... And being that OTA on the HR20 is not even three weeks old yet, and with most of the development team being a "skeleton" crew due to the holidays... There just hasn't been enough time to identify and correct the issues.
     
  16. Bajanjack

    Bajanjack Icon

    695
    1
    Oct 22, 2006
    Earl is it your belief that D* will come up with a "fix" once we get past New Years?
     
  17. Earl Bonovich

    Earl Bonovich Lifetime Achiever

    30,092
    3
    Nov 15, 2005
    Yes, I do think they will get it fixed.
     
  18. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    42,739
    361
    Dec 9, 2006
    There was a posting about the RF connections to the tuners with a view inside the HR-20 showing the OTA coax. This must have been of an early unit. I just received a reconditioned box & looked inside. At least from Sept. 2006 on, the RF cabling comes out of a splitter at the back of the box and has a separate coax cable to each tuner. I hope this will put an end to a rumor that the tuners weren't connected properly [RF wise] to the OTA input.
     
  19. lilzaphod

    lilzaphod New Member

    1
    0
    Dec 28, 2006
    Hi all. Just ordered a Hr-20 this afternoon. We will get it in 4 weeks :(

    That said, after reading 20 pages of posts, I'm confused.

    CSR/Retention rep said that i cannot get OTA with the Hr-20. Seems wrong from what I've read here just now, but they gave me $46 credit for this since the CSR 'misspoke'. Yeah, i like free money.

    So if i can get OTA with the Hr-20, i need to get a antennae to receive the signal. I looked at antennaeweb website for zip 52246, and i'm confused again with the color
    charts. (at bottom of post)

    So the question i have is this: Does it make sense for me to call directTV to find out who the installer (contractor in iowa city) to see if I can get them to install a OTA antennae at the same time as the new 5lnb Dish? Does anyone have a recommendation as to which OTA antennae I should get based on the chart below?

    Thanks all for your help.

    * yellow - uhf KIIN-DT 45.1 PBS IOWA CITY IA 68° 14.2 45
    yellow - uhf KFXA 28 FOX CEDAR RAPIDS IA 320° 39.5 28
    * yellow - uhf KFXA-DT 28.1 FOX CEDAR RAPIDS IA 320° 39.5 27
    green - uhf KRIN 32 PBS WATERLOO IA 343° 48.0 32
    * green - uhf KRIN-DT 35.1 PBS WATERLOO IA 343° 48.0 35
    * green - uhf KCRG-DT 9.1 ABC CEDAR RAPIDS IA 343° 48.0 52
    green - uhf KYOU 15 FOX OTTUMWA IA 210° 36.2 15
    lt green - vhf KWWL 7 NBC WATERLOO IA 346° 53.5 7
    * lt green - uhf KWWL-DT 7.1 NBC WATERLOO IA 346° 53.5 55
    lt green - vhf KCRG 9 ABC CEDAR RAPIDS IA 343° 48.0 9
    red - vhf KIIN 12 PBS IOWA CITY IA 68° 14.2 12
    red - uhf KPXR 48 i CEDAR RAPIDS IA 341° 46.5 48
    red - uhf KWKB 20 CW IOWA CITY IA 66° 13.8 20
    * blue - uhf KWKB-DT 20.1 CW IOWA CITY IA 66° 13.8 25
    blue - vhf KWQC 6 NBC DAVENPORT IA 96° 58.5 6
    blue - vhf WHBF 4 CBS ROCK ISLAND IL 96° 58.5 4
    blue - uhf KLJB 18 FOX DAVENPORT IA 108° 66.9 18
    * blue - uhf KYOU-DT 15.1 FOX OTTUMWA IA 210° 36.2 14
    blue - uhf K62FU 62 TBN MUSCATINE IA 117° 30.6 62
    * blue - uhf KPXR-DT 48.1 i CEDAR RAPIDS IA 341° 46.5 47
    blue - vhf KGAN 2 CBS CEDAR RAPIDS IA 341° 47.0 2
    * violet - uhf KGAN-DT 2.1 CBS CEDAR RAPIDS IA 343° 48.0 51
    violet - vhf KTVO 3 ABC KIRKSVILLE MO 209° 88.8 3
    violet - uhf WQPT 24 PBS MOLINE IL 108° 66.9 24
    violet - vhf WQAD 8 ABC MOLINE IL 109° 67.3 8
     
  20. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    42,739
    361
    Dec 9, 2006
    I'm sure [for a fee] you could get someone to install your OTA antenna. The colors are to give you an idea of what type of gain you would need from your antenna. Yellow would be a small cheap one & violet would be a large [high gain] directional with maybe a preamp added. You might to better getting someone from the phone book as most [not all] D* installers aren't the "sharpest". A local TV person would know what works best in your area. What you need to decide is which direction you want it to point. You may want to add a rotor so you can swing the antenna between your three directions [67, 342, & 210 degrees]. If you don't, then you will need to pick which channels you want since no antenna will get good signals from three directions [at once] without moving it. You distance doesn't look too far, but it looks like their transmitter power isn't that strong [requiring you to have a larger antenna].
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

spam firewall