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Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by JDB30, Oct 9, 2007.

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  1. Oct 11, 2007 #41 of 138

    gully_foyle Hall Of Fame

    Jan 18, 2007
    Los Angeles
    Are we talking about clock drift? I truly hope we aren't. Most comm devices behave poorly with crystals so far off that you notice more than a few seconds of clock drift over a day. I'd hope that the clock is updated at least that frequently.

    I think we are rather talking about some uncertainty in when the updated system time is written to the HR20's real-time clock. Clearly an update does happen, or some devices would get many minutes off.

    Hard to debug from the outside, but since this wasn't an issue with the HR10 (or at least not with MY HR10), I'd put the blame on software latencies in the HR20.
  2. Oct 11, 2007 #42 of 138
  3. Oct 11, 2007 #43 of 138

    csgo Legend

    Oct 15, 2006
    There are a couple of time signals in the DirecTV data stream and the ones I know of are extremely accurate. The uplink / downlink times are known factors.

    I don't know if the continual HR-20 time problems are hardware or software based, but it is the problem of the HR-20.

    If you compare a valid time source to the HR-20 you can easily see that the HR-20 is not consistant with time calculations. I have several HR-20's and have seen variations of up to 12 seconds on a unit in the same day!

    As I said, extremely accurate time data is in the data stream, but for whatever reason the HR-20 does not take advantage of the available data... or at least doesn't do it properly.
  4. Oct 12, 2007 #44 of 138
    rotten wotton

    rotten wotton New Member

    Jun 30, 2007
    Has anyone tried to record shows back to back on the same channel to see what happens? I too have had the same problems with the late starts on the hr20 with no late starts on the sd tivo I have.
  5. Oct 13, 2007 #45 of 138

    calidelphia Godfather

    Feb 17, 2007
    I've noticed this before but never paid too much attention.

    I tested this with my R10 and found a 6 sec difference.

    Not much but still annoying.
  6. Oct 22, 2007 #46 of 138

    mrshermanoaks DBSTalk Club Member

    Aug 27, 2006
    I see two issues:

    1. The HR20 starts recording late, a lot. My Replays start recording on time.
    2. The HR20 starts playback as much as 30 seconds after the start of the program.

    longtime problems, no solution in sight.
  7. Oct 22, 2007 #47 of 138
    Lee L

    Lee L Hall Of Fame

    Aug 15, 2002
    I just got the HR20 set up and already my first couple of programs started later than they used to with the HR10-250.
  8. Oct 22, 2007 #48 of 138

    elove AllStar

    Aug 17, 2007
    I have the same issue with the clock being off.

    I have had the HR20 since Aug 17. I also have the HR10-250 DirectvHD Tivo.
    The only complaint I have is the recordings start 10-30 seconds into the show. You miss a lot of the storyline information here.

    I recorded the Bionic Women on both. The HR10-250 record light came on first, then I counted to see how long it took for the HR20 recording light to come on. I counted to about 20 before it came on.

    So if Directv can fix the HR20 clock, I will be a happy camper. Can't this be fixed with a software update.
  9. Oct 22, 2007 #49 of 138

    texasbrit Well-Known Member

    Aug 9, 2006
    I have been monitoring the HR20 timing issues for several months; I check out all the new software releases with the same set of tests. At the beginning of 2007 the HR20 was very poor at starting/finishing the recordings at the correct time, but there has been a significant improvement. All my timings are stop-watch and I do not see anything like the long time discrepancies others are reporting. I have an HR20-100, an HR20-700, and an SD TiVo to use as my baseline.
    First, the displayed clock. (I am not convinced, by the way, that the HR20 uses the displayed clock for anything, since in the early days I could sometimes get wide discrepancies between the clock and atomic time but these discrepancies were not reflected in the record times). My SD TiVo clock runs about 3-4 seconds slow compared with my atomic clock. It has been consistent for the last nine months. My HR20-700 runs about 5 seconds slow, and my HR20-100 about two seconds fast.
    I recorded six different programs, all on the local network channels, in SD on the TiVo, and in HD using both MPEG-4 HD locals and MPEG-2 OTA locals, on each HR20, so five recordings of the same six programs. Software on the HR20s was 0x168. Results were as follows:
    The TiVo consistently started recording three seconds earlier than the HR20-700, and the HR20-700 2-3 seconds earlier than the HR20-100.
    MPEG-2 HD recordings and MPEG-4 HD recordings on the same Hr20 always started at different times - by two to three seconds either way.
    The two HR20s finished their recordings of the same program at the same time, to within a couple of seconds. The SD TiVo always recorded for a couple of seconds longer than the HR20s.

    These tests are by far the most consistent results for the HR20s I have seen. The SD TiVo ALWAYS starts earlier and records for longer than either of the HR20s, but only by a few seconds.

    I also saw one case, on the HR20-700, of the bug where a program starts to play approx 30 seconds or so into the program, but backing up allows you to see the whole program.

    Of course I can't say that everyone else will see the results I am seeing but my testing seems to show that the HR20 is almost there - not quite, but close.
  10. Oct 22, 2007 #50 of 138

    Milominderbinder2 Cutting Edge: ECHELON '08

    Oct 8, 2006
    Whatever it is I still miss the beginnings of every show of both of my HR20-700's.

    Then it also does that crazy thing where it start 30 seconds even after that.

    For the love of god, why?

    - Craig
  11. Oct 22, 2007 #51 of 138

    ub1934 Icon

    Dec 30, 2005
    UpState NY
    And i thought it was just me , not happy to see all of this going on to others . Could it have anything to do with the HR 20 changing resolutions ?
  12. Oct 22, 2007 #52 of 138
    Ken S

    Ken S RIP

    Feb 12, 2007
    More importantly...why after all of these months hasn't this been corrected?
  13. Oct 22, 2007 #53 of 138

    mrshermanoaks DBSTalk Club Member

    Aug 27, 2006
    Obviously lots of people are seeing this. Does anyone know if this is a Known Bug, acknowledged by DirecTV?
  14. Oct 22, 2007 #54 of 138
    Lord Vader

    Lord Vader Supreme Member DBSTalk Club

    Sep 20, 2004
    Galactic Empire
    Why not? :D
  15. Oct 22, 2007 #55 of 138

    jayerndl AllStar

    Aug 4, 2007
    It seems to me that there are still many people on this forum that deny a problems exists or indicate that the problem is so complicated that it is unrealistic to expect it to be fixed. I think it's BS and that if both SD and HD Directivos can start and stop recording reliably then the HR20 should be able to also.

  16. Oct 22, 2007 #56 of 138

    jwd45244 Hall Of Fame

    Aug 18, 2006
    I suspect that the people that are denying the problem don't see the problem. I have no doubt that people are seeing recordings happen later or not at all. However, some of us have never seen late recordings. We don't know why or why not.

    I expect all of the problems to be fixed. It may take time to resolve.
  17. Oct 22, 2007 #57 of 138

    Kojo62 AllStar

    Aug 9, 2007
    PA, USA
    Wow, interesting thread. I thought it was just my own HR20 having this problem.

    I've even tried the exercise of checking when the HR20 actually changes the displayed time and comparing it to the "exact" local time as reported by various sources. It never seems to be that far off, usually within a few seconds at worst. So I don't think it's an issue of clock drift. But somehow the HR20 always clips the beginning of my shows no matter what.

    By comparison, our older DirecTiVo upstairs still starts all its recordings quite accurately, and has done so for years now.

    I thought about padding 1 minute to all my recordings, and have done just that for a few programs here and there. But I'd rather not introduce conflicts across my entire scheduling grid, and have decided instead I'll just have to live with this annoyance for now. Hopefully they can develop a fix for it.
  18. Oct 22, 2007 #58 of 138

    wagman Legend

    Jul 11, 2007
    I too am frustrated with the whole recording starting late. I truly never remember this happening on my HR10.

    To the suggestion of setting the defaults to start recording 1 minute early: Wouldn't that cause conflicts with recordings scheduled after these programs? What would be helpful is to allow a stop recording early option; that way you could set the defaults to start and stop 1 minute early, solving any conflict issues (having a 15, 30, and 45 second option would be helpful in this scenario as well).

    Earl: I don't see you as defensive...you just state things objectively at flatly: that comes across to some as defensive or superior (I have this same problem with some of my e-mails). It is not meant as anything other than neutral, but people take it as they want to.

    Also to Earl: I'm no rocket scientist, but would not all of the reasons you listed in your initial reply to the OP actually cause a delay in the program starting, not a delay in the recording starting. If the program and recording both started at 8pm, wouldn't, because of your list of reasons, the program start seconds after the recording started, possibly causing cutoff at the end, not the beginning? I don't buy those reasons being the cause of lousy recording start times. They are legitimate delays, but not the reason the recordings start late. I think D* could encode the programs to start a recording a few seconds earlier on all recordings.

    To the person that asked about recording shows back to back: I do this quite frequently, and I get the first few seconds of the latter show at the end of the earlier show. I make it a habit of watching recordings done this way in the order they were recorded, so I catch the first part of the latter show.

  19. Oct 22, 2007 #59 of 138

    digger16309 Legend

    Sep 20, 2007
    We know that recordings can get messed up with corrupted guide data, right?

    What if the HR20 verifies the program before it starts recording?

    Example: You set it to record House at 9:00. For some short period of time after 9:00, the HR20 looks for bits in the data stream that say, "This is House". Then it starts recording.

    If say, there is a speech from the oval office that pre-empts House, it doesn't get those bits in the data and doesn't start recording.

    This also could be the cause of mysterious random non-recordings. Perhaps it doesn't receive the "This is...." message and then doesn't start recording.

    Just a thought.
  20. Oct 22, 2007 #60 of 138

    belunos AllStar

    Oct 5, 2007
    Ha, my wife nearly flipped her lid when the last CSI was cut off by about 30 seconds
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