HR20 Survey Results - Failure Rates and Possible Work-Arounds

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by Milominderbinder2, Feb 8, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Feb 8, 2007 #1 of 25
    Milominderbinder2

    Milominderbinder2 Cutting Edge: ECHELON '08

    4,107
    0
    Oct 8, 2006
    Survey Says!

    Over the past few days, an amazing 777 HR20 users took the:
    HR20 Site Survey - Finding the Cures.

    Executive Summary:
    Percentage of HR20s Replaced To Date: 18.6%
    Percentage of HR20s Reformatted To Date: 39.2%

    However no user reported a single replacement if they were taking five key preventative measures.

    Please see the HR20 Site Survey - Finding the Cures for details. For each of the 47 variables, there are also US Maps and Histograms.

    In addition, there is a Summary Analysis and a Multi-Variable Analysis. All raw data and calculations are included.
     
  2. Feb 8, 2007 #2 of 25
    Doug Brott

    Doug Brott Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

    28,939
    72
    Jul 12, 2006
    Los Angeles
    If you haven't checked yet, the Results are in on the HR20 Site Survey. Click the link in the post above and you can see the results for yourself.
     
  3. Feb 8, 2007 #3 of 25
    jheda

    jheda DBSTalk Club Member

    1,364
    1
    Sep 19, 2006
    Great great job!!!


    why do you think Native on MAY be related to issues? If anything doesnt it allow the TV, not the hr20 to do the scaling? Educate me someone....
     
  4. Feb 8, 2007 #4 of 25
    hdtvfan0001

    hdtvfan0001 Well-Known Member

    32,456
    258
    Jul 28, 2004
    Since its relevant here too, I'll reiterate my comments from within the survey thread - great job on the survey, but I have a few observations:

    Results
    Users Surveyed To Date: 777
    Replacement HR20s To Date: 177
    Total HR20s: 954
    Percentage of HR20s Replaced To Date: 18.6% *
    Percentage of HR20s Reformatted To Date: 39.2% *

    * These percentages may be lower than actual because respondents to note up to 4 replacements and 4 reformats.
    Those 2 key footnoted variables render the data inconclusive.

    There could be certain locations that have location-specific issues (power quality or power surges, for example) that could lead to multi-replacements. This distorts the overall % of total user numbers considerably. In addition, the reformats may have been done by user choice, as opposed to necessity (other solutions may have avoided a reformat actually being needed).

    The one thing I learned a long time ago is numbers can say alot of different things, depending on how the information is presented and how it is interpreted. I'm not saying anything negative about the survey or its intent, just that how the information is analyzed is subject to scrutiny and interpretation.

    Another example...I have 2 HR20's without virtually any problems, yet I only voted once.

    I think this information is interesting, but not sure it really diagnoses anything definitive as of yet.
     
  5. Feb 8, 2007 #5 of 25
    bwaldron

    bwaldron Impossible Dreamer

    5,525
    0
    Oct 24, 2005
    Hard to say. I do find it hard to believe that a simple "pass-through" of video would be causing significant problems.

    It could be correlated with HDMI issues that some people have -- which are just as (or more) likely to be the fault of the TV as the HR20.

    It could be that people are getting no picture with native on and 480i on a TV that doesn't support it over HDMI...they called D* and a CSR sent 'em a replacement.

    Or they think that the delay in channel switching is a fault of the HR20...and once again, the CSR sends a replacement.

    I guess what I am saying is that, given the ease with which I suspect D* is sending out replacements, "replacement" may not be the most useful dependent variable in any prediction equations.

    I've used native on and certainly have no plans to change, without further evidence that it is directly causing problems. My major problem has been the "unwatchable" bug...and I can't even begin to imagine how having native output on might cause that.
     
  6. Feb 8, 2007 #6 of 25
    Doug Brott

    Doug Brott Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

    28,939
    72
    Jul 12, 2006
    Los Angeles
    If I had to guess, this is an area that I would lean. Perhaps next time we should also ask if the "available modes" for the TV were ever set in the HR20 menus.

    I had some dropped programs in the past (i.e. it recorded, but then showed up as "partial" in the History). In every case that I found, it was a program that was on a channel that (1) I receive and (2) was NOT selected as a visible channel in my Custom Channel List.

    I thought of these after the Survey went Live, but I guess I would be curious as to whether or not the video settings and Custom Channels setup were ever configured and/or perhaps when it was last checked.
     
  7. Feb 8, 2007 #7 of 25
    bwaldron

    bwaldron Impossible Dreamer

    5,525
    0
    Oct 24, 2005
    I really like having native mode available; to me it is one of the key improvements of the HR20 over the HR10...and one of the reasons I made the jump before I was "forced" to.

    However, I do understand how folks relatively new to HD can get confused by it. As I've said before, if you don't know why you'd want it, you're probably better keeping it turned off :)

    The manual doesn't do a bad job explaining it, but it could be better...and many folks don't bother to read manuals, anyway (given some of the mistakes in the HR20 docs, that could be a good thing).

    I do not know if the CSRs are trained to walk through a simple diagnosis of setup issues related to native mode and resolutions. I expect they are not, and so some boxes with "no picture" are being replaced in error.
     
  8. Feb 8, 2007 #8 of 25
    Supervolcano

    Supervolcano Hall Of Fame

    2,085
    0
    Jan 23, 2007
    I realize Milo isn't saying that all failures are a result of those 5 things. He is simply guessing that they could be connected. That is to be expected and is the "best he can do" with a survey that doesn't have fill in the blank answers.

    Let me fill in "my blank" for why I needed a replacement.
    Satellite Tuner #2 was bad right out of the box.

    I have no idea how many replacements were for this reason, but I do know from reading here that many people had this issue, and subsequently were replaced.

    Just trying to help.
     
  9. Feb 8, 2007 #9 of 25
    rminsk

    rminsk Legend

    205
    0
    Dec 4, 2006
    From the survey results "We appreciate the many updates you have already provided and look forward to continuing our very positive relationship." What relationship? Have they ever responded directly to us? They have no representive on this board. They have relayed things to some people with inside contacts but that is not a relationship. This relationship seems very one sided.
     
  10. Doug Brott

    Doug Brott Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

    28,939
    72
    Jul 12, 2006
    Los Angeles
    rminsk,

    To my knowledge, I have not spoken directly to any DirecTV employee. There are some folks on this board besides Earl that have, though. DirecTV "hears" the comments posted here as well as the information culled from the Survey that Craig just completed as well as the HR20 Wish List Survey. I can say with certainty that, while the relationship may be tempered, it is not one way.
     
  11. westernamerican

    westernamerican Banned User

    143
    0
    Dec 14, 2006
    How about the percentage of the ones replaced that solved the issues?

    And, the percentage of the ones reformatted that solved the issues?
     
  12. IndyTom

    IndyTom Cool Member

    24
    0
    Dec 8, 2006
    I think I better start a survey titled:

    "For those that have not purchased an HR20, do you feel a sense of relief after reading that survey?"
     
  13. bwaldron

    bwaldron Impossible Dreamer

    5,525
    0
    Oct 24, 2005
    Still, the point has some validity. As much as I appreciate the work Earl does as a conduit to/from DirecTV, I would prefer that the company had the cojones to have one or more official representatives on this board.

    Yeah, they'd have to have thick skin, but I believe that such interaction would have the beneficial effect of "humanizing" the corporation for users, as well as providing more real and direct two-way communication. People find it much easier to rant at a faceless corporation as opposed to a real person, and I think that most folks here would be reasonable and respectful in their interactions. The (inevitable) exceptions who choose personal attack mode could be moderated exactly as they are now.

    The interaction with company employees is something I very much appreciated with Tivo and ReplayTV, and something that I miss with DirecTV (save for the managers there I know personally, who are not involved with DVR development).

    DirecTV has taken some very positive steps with us. They could -- and in my opinion, should -- go further.
     
  14. bwaldron

    bwaldron Impossible Dreamer

    5,525
    0
    Oct 24, 2005
    :)
     
  15. Milominderbinder2

    Milominderbinder2 Cutting Edge: ECHELON '08

    4,107
    0
    Oct 8, 2006
    The drop-down arrows in the Excel spreadsheet let you do exactly that. Here is how:

    Click on this link: HR20 Site Survey Multivariable Analysisand open the Excel file.

    Click the User Details tab at the bottom. Now you are looking at the raw data for all 777 respondents.

    Add a filter for 1 Replacement: click the drop-down arrow in cell AM9 and "2".
    (No Repacements =1, 1 Replacement =2, etc.)

    Look at how much more red you have. Look at all of the problems they are having. Especially look at the past week problems:

    # Lost Recordings
    # Video Problems
    # Audio Problems

    Replacements really are not helping even when they do not get replaced again.

    Then compare to people with Repalcements of none (Value= 0) or 2 Replacements (=3).

    Replacements are not the solution because hardware is not the problem.

    To take off all of the filters, in the top menu, click Data, Filters, Show All.

    Do the same check on Reformats. Same as above except use the drop-down in AN9.

    Reformatting is not the answer either.

    Five factors have a strong correlation to serious problems:
    1. Native Mode ON
    2. HDMI
    3. More than 30 Series Links
    4. Any Autorecords
    5. HR20 Off (Standby)

    - Craig
     
  16. Stuart Sweet

    Stuart Sweet The Shadow Knows!

    37,060
    288
    Jun 18, 2006
    I think this is a great survey. What I would like to see is if the results 4 months from now (showing only data from the last 4 months) are better than the results now. My gut tells me they will be.
     
  17. westernamerican

    westernamerican Banned User

    143
    0
    Dec 14, 2006
    Still like to see the below stats!!!!!!!!!

    How about the percentage of the ones replaced that solved the issues?

    And, the percentage of the ones reformatted that solved the issues?
     
  18. Milominderbinder2

    Milominderbinder2 Cutting Edge: ECHELON '08

    4,107
    0
    Oct 8, 2006
    % of 1st Replacements not HR20 related → 81.4%

    At least 81% still had problems.

    Replacements are not the solution because hardware is not the problem.
     
  19. lwilli201

    lwilli201 Hall Of Fame

    3,189
    28
    Dec 22, 2006
    Missouri
    Can none members vote in these surveys?
     
  20. Tom Robertson

    Tom Robertson Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

    21,331
    247
    Nov 15, 2005
    Perhaps this will give some insight. HDMI is far from a simple pass thru of video and sound. It is a very full data protocol whereby the TV and the HR20 chat about capabilities, video type, timing, etc. The HR20 has to convert the signal to something the TV can handle, the TV has to tell the HR20 what to do, and then the data can flow--until the first commercial break, when the TV and HR20 have to decide what to do with the changed sound, video type (movie or video), etc.

    HDMI is a "new" protocol. Sure, there is a standard, but anyone who has seen the first several generations of new standards for communication can likely attest to how interoperability is almost always a nightmare. The HR20 could be completely to specification, but if the TV isn't, it still makes the HR20 look bad.

    This is why HDMI is on the list of so many replaced HR20s. From several sources, I am told Directv is buying every single TV we report here and testing the TV for HDMI compatability. Often the TV is at fault. Sometimes its just a minor ambiguity in the specification. But Directv is coding around the issues to make things work.

    Hope this explains,
    Tom
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

spam firewall