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HR24-100 Soft Picture Quality

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by Chris22, Aug 8, 2010.

  1. hdtvfan0001

    hdtvfan0001 Well-Known Member

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    A few folks with Panny's are indicating a problem with their HR24-100's imagery. There may not be either a single or simple source or answer. I simply mentioned that the black level issue was one thing read out there, and that there were a few other posted items on the Pannys out there...nothing more. I happen to own a Haier HD display....so could also relate to the OP....as it is not my everyday unit, but I have tried the HR24-100 and don't see those results either.

    Then you start ranting... please get a grip. :rolleyes:
     
  2. Steve

    Steve Well-Known Member

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    Must have missed those. I'd appreciate links. TIA.
     
  3. hdtvfan0001

    hdtvfan0001 Well-Known Member

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    Not just in this thread, or at this site.

    Had no problems re-pulling 4 of them with a simple search of "Panny" here and one other sister site.

    Another was a field experience with an associate. His issue was corrected through a combination of HDMI cable upgrade and tweaking his settings to the "vivid" setting. There were also some posts about folks comparing the H20-700 and HR24-500 HD outputs to the same Panny 50" plasma display. I saw one of those in person as well.

    I'm a big Panny fan, and have recommended them to 3 people I know who ultimately got them. That said...there have been some HDMI and display settings "issues" that all seemed to be overcome in their own ways. That is neither any kind of slam nor derogatory statement towards using the Panny line with any HR24 HD DVR. Its simply a matter of some folks having initial issues, not unlike the OP here.
     
  4. Steve

    Steve Well-Known Member

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    You continue to imply some folks here have a Panny/H24 issue. I guess I'm using the wrong search terms, then. I found no posts in this thread or this site specifically dealing with Panny/HR24 PQ issues, hence my FUD "rant", as you characterized it.
     
  5. NaperDan

    NaperDan Legend

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    This is off target, but still a very important issue for those who don't want to ruin their TVs. Why would any of you set any of your displays to the "vivid" setting? :nono2:

    You're just adding information to the image that is not there, and at a distance it may appear/seem sharper, but when viewed up close really looks like crap! Vivid settings, also, unless adjusted for the unrealistically high contrast settings associated with them, will ruin your plasma display in a matter of hours. (Don't know if the above was a plasma or not...)
     
  6. hdtvfan0001

    hdtvfan0001 Well-Known Member

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    Not recommending it....just reporting it worked for someone.

    I'll be sure to let them know they should seek another alternative despite being quite pleased with their results.
     
  7. Jason Whiddon

    Jason Whiddon Hall Of Fame

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    I bought my HR24 when they went public, from Overstock.com. At that time, I had a 55" Regza 670u LED LCD, and the image seemed a little washed. I recently bought a 58" S2 Plasma, and was still unhappy with the image. Seeing that my HR24 does not play well with the AM21, I decided to move it to the bedroom, and bring the HR22 back out. On shows I watch often, the HR22 looks better.

    A couple of days ago I watched Covert Affairs, and it looked EXCELLENT, and sharp. I then decided to swap receivers real quick and watch it again, on the same TV, with the HR24. Noticeable PQ difference, colors are a little more drab and it was not as sharp. So, thats TWO types of TV's, and I've also added a DVDO unit. I first thought it was RGB deal, but that should not be an issue with the DVDO.

    It's either the NXP chip vs the Broadcom, or I have a faulty unit. It's not "bad", it's just "not as good". I'm over it though, I've been pretty much labeled as village nut at the other site because they see no picture quality differences, and their AM21's work fine with the HR24. So... This all comes from someone who owns his own meter, has calibrated a few TV's, and had his TV calibrated by LionAV 4 times.

    My HR24 is in the bedroom for MRV recording duties, I bought a TiVo XL for OTA, and the AM21 will get thrown against the side of the house :)
     
  8. Steve

    Steve Well-Known Member

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    I found that the HR20 looked better on my Panny 65S1 than my HR24 when I first hooked it up cold and A/B'd the two boxes in calibrated Cinema mode. I had one on HDMI 1 and the other on HDMI 2. Once I tweaked HDMI 2's brightness, contrast, tint and color settings using the same show frames for comparison, I was no longer able to see any difference in PQ (or in RGB vs. Ycbcr). And when I say "tweaked", I didn't have to change any setting by more than 5%-10%, IIRC.
     
  9. Jason Whiddon

    Jason Whiddon Hall Of Fame

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    Well, here's the problem with that. Panasonic settings are set to the mode, so if you use cinema, and change brightness, it changes the brightness across all inputs in Cinema mode. Cinema mode is also the only really good picture mode on these plasmas.

    So, if I have the TV properly calibrated in Cinema, I can use Cinema across HDMI inputs. If I change Contrast/Brightness/Color on HDMI2 in Cinema, for the HR24, then Cinema on HDMI1, for the BR player, is now jacked.

    You properly calibrate a display with a signal generator, with proper test patterns, and a good meter. Once the input on the TV is properly calibrated, I don't see messing with it for an HDDVR that can't play nice. I've gone from ViP622's, to 722's, to 722k's. HR20's to HR22's, and never had an issue. Also had a TiVo HD in the past, and ALL played nice with a calibrated display, except the HR24. I think it boils down to the fact Directv, for whatever reason, went with NXP, and it's something with their design, or the design of the new boxes. It's not going to be an issue for them, because 99.9% of the folks wont notice, or dont care. Almost everyone I know has their tv's setup in a way that colors are too high and they crush blacks, because they don't know any better. These are probably like a lot of the Directv customers.

    I also run all my stuff thru the DVDO, which will soon be calibrated itself, so there won't be any messing with settings.

    My HR24 does fine for me now, it's just recording, and I dont have to watch it.
     
  10. hdtvfan0001

    hdtvfan0001 Well-Known Member

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    That one highlighted statement caught my eye. I've been particularly following how the HR24-500 and HR24-100 units have compared in results.

    [Nice HDTV by the way...my brother has the 50" earlier model version and loves his too].

    Unfortunately...in the issues threads....sometimes, folks post just "HR24", and not the specific model (-100, -200, or -500)...so its tough to tell if there are any definitive differences. All three units are fundamentally the same as stated by the First Look peices. My conclusions to date are only anecdotal or first/second hand observations, so they are no where near not enough in substance or facts to substantiate anything definitive as far as differences.
     
  11. Jason Whiddon

    Jason Whiddon Hall Of Fame

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    It's a real nice TV. This is my 3rd, and I went to the darkside for a little bit with the LED, and just wasn't happy. Panasonic plasmas still do fault from not having a dedicated CMS for really dialing in colors, and the gamma is a little low, but that's were the calibration features in the DVDO come in.

    I've wondered if the other HR24 models are also outputting RGB 4:4:4, but I've not seen anyone say. I know the 500 is. I'm more irritated at myself, because I went for the speed. I ran into a little PQ issue, and a box that could not record off my AM21 reliably, so it left a foul taste.
     
  12. Steve

    Steve Well-Known Member

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    I don't know about the S2, but with my S1, I think Cinema is only the best mode "on paper", because of the supposed benefits of the 600Hz Sub-field Drive, only active in that mode. In my own testing, I frankly don't see what difference 600mhz makes when I calibrated Custom mode to look like Cinema. The gammas of the two modes are close enough that you can do that, at least on the S1, if you want different settings for different devices.

    My LG BD390, also connected HDMI, has lots of default CMS output settings I can tweak (more than the S1's service menu, BTW!), but it and the HR24 seem to play so well together on Cinema, I haven't found the need to use anything but the defaults. Just my experience.
     
  13. NaperDan

    NaperDan Legend

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    Interesting to note that true HD, since it is DIGITAL, should show no degradation from the incoming, or source, if you will, to the outgoing signal to the viewing media. For example: I watch OTA shows using my TV's antenna a lot. When I watch my HR20-700 using the OTA antenna there is no visible difference in quality. I have a Sony 60 inch SXRD. If the HR24-??? is outputting a faulty signal, one which on a previous unit [or in a side-by-side comparison] was sharp and unpixelated (not soft), it's reasonable to assume that the new unit itself is indeed faulty.

    Don't give up on getting D* to solve this problem. It may prove to be a bad batch of units from a given manufacturer, which is determined by the -???. I suggest telling D* that your HDMI is OTS and to get another new one out, making sure that it is not from the same manufacturer. Emails also do a lot more to get things done than phone calls.
     
  14. Jason Whiddon

    Jason Whiddon Hall Of Fame

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    I started to go that route, but it works fine for what I'm using it as. I'd soon not mess with it. It's in the bedroom recording strictly satellite channel programming every night, plus it allows us to watch tv or MRV in the bedroom (when I work 3-11 my wife does this a lot).

    In the living room, I have the HR22 strictly as a way to view MRV off the 24, or watch TV. It's not on an AM21 now, and has no scheduled recordings, which keeps it's speed pretty good. The TiVo HD is OTA only and will handle all of my local channel recordings in the Fall and Spring.
     
  15. NaperDan

    NaperDan Legend

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    3-11?! Are you an ATCr?
     
  16. Jason Whiddon

    Jason Whiddon Hall Of Fame

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    Huh?
     
  17. ZTerry

    ZTerry AllStar

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    That reminds me....another concern in getting the HR24 is that I need an OTA tuner (receive DirecTV locals from one city and OTA from antoher), so would need to get the AR21. This is one of the reasons I paid $600 out of my pocket for the HR20s, to ensure that I did not receive an HR21, which does not havd an OTA tuner. So I suppose there is no way to get another HR20? That would be ideal! If not, then what receiver should I request to attain the same PQ as the HR20, including OTA quality with the AM21? Thanks.

    Oh, just saw your note on TiVo XL for OTA. So there is an alternative to using the AM21 - any suggustions/vendors/soruces of info? Thanks.

    P.S. HBO picture quality with the HR20 is among the best, if not the best, of any channel.
     
  18. randys1

    randys1 Cool Member

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    Has this problem been figured out anyway for a KURO?

    I just hooked my hr24500 to my kuro and the picture is crap...help!
     
  19. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Dragged up an old thread for the wrong model, "but" adjust your TV.
    As they said over on AVS the -500 outputs RGB.
    My Sony XBR has no problem recognizing the signal and displaying it correctly.
    You need to adjust your kuro, if it isn't doing this.
     
  20. randys1

    randys1 Cool Member

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    wait, i found it, thanks, seems to help....
     

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