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HR24-500 very poor SD resolution

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by dryfly, Nov 8, 2012.

  1. Nov 8, 2012 #1 of 13
    dryfly

    dryfly New Member

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    I recently had two HR24-500 receivers installed and immediately noticed a degradation in picture quality on SD channels. The picture appears grainy, and is especially on any alpha-numeric characters that appear on screen. Characters appear as if they are composed of blocks, with absolutely no smooth scaling on the edges.

    HD picture quality is great.

    I found several posts from a couple of years ago describing the same issue, but nothing stating any resolution to the problem. Anyone know of a fix?? any help appreciated.
     
  2. Nov 8, 2012 #2 of 13
    dpeters11

    dpeters11 Hall Of Fame

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    What did they replace? SD video quality is definitely lacking.
     
  3. Nov 8, 2012 #3 of 13
    veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Don't watch SD. :lol:

    "Really" the SD quality isn't very good. I have an HR24-500 and "mine isn't bad", but this is because my TV does the scaling.
    I use native on, have all resolutions selected and SD is output to my TV in 480i, and my TV is what has a good scaler to scale it to fit the 46' screen.
    I can even zoom the letterbox SD to fill the whole screen and it doesn't look "that bad".
    I don't get the same results if the DVR does the scaling.
     
  4. Nov 8, 2012 #4 of 13
    dryfly

    dryfly New Member

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    These new receivers replaced HR21-700.

    I've got spoiled with HD so try to avoid SD but there is some stuff out there I still watch.

    OK, so I setup my DVR to "native", check all of the available output resolutions, but how do I specify 480i as the SD output to my TV? Also, what settings do I make on the TV to take full benefit on the DVR settings. I remember the good old days when you just brought home a TV, hooked it up to the outside antenna, and enjoyed it. I'm really flakey at using the available settings.
     
  5. Nov 8, 2012 #5 of 13
    P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    480i could go out on RCA/S-Video outputs only.


    HDMI and Component outputs giving 480p/720p/1080i and sometimes 1080p24 [PPV, VOD]

    It would be hard to find TV with HDMI/Component what will accept 480i. Possible with small chance.
     
  6. Nov 8, 2012 #6 of 13
    veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    When you turn on "native" the receiver then sends out the same resolution as the broadcaster is sending.
    As for your TV, the settings vary between manufactures so there isn't much help I can offer.
    I've got an older [overpriced] Sony Bravia, that has a better scaler.
    My older [cheaper] Vizio doesn't have the same quality scaler, so this becomes a YMMV thing.
     
  7. Nov 8, 2012 #7 of 13
    dryfly

    dryfly New Member

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    How do I tell the HR24-500 to send the 480i out on the RCA/S-Video outputs, and then revert to HDMI output on other resolutions? Sounds like a good idea but seems like it would have to be manual, i.e. connecting/disconnecting cables between resolutions. If so, way too much trouble.
     
  8. Nov 8, 2012 #8 of 13
    KyL416

    KyL416 Hall Of Fame

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    I have it on native and have no problem watching 480i via HDMI or component with an off-brand under $200 TV I got 2 years ago, so you likely don't need to do any switching between sources, the resolution will change automatically based on the channel. Depending on the TV there might be a second or two of no video and audio while the TV adjusts to the different resolution after you change channels.
     
  9. Nov 8, 2012 #9 of 13
    P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    It could just do 480p via HDMI ... then any HD TV should accept it. Or do deinterlacing by itself. Who knows what would be better.
     
  10. harperhometheater

    harperhometheater Legend

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    De-interlacing "IS" the conversion from 480i/1080i to 480p/1080p. HDMI and component should have no issue transmitting 480i either. As a matter of fact, component pretty much started in consumer devices as 480i from early generation DVD players. The more "Elite" ones offered expensive deinterlacers built in and gave 480p out.
     
  11. acostapimps

    acostapimps Hall Of Famer

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    I don't know but when I had a LG plasma 42 inch the SD look really bad on some channels, but know that I have a Samsung 43 inch the SD don't look so bad and some channels look decent and I have it native off and only 1080i and 720p checked for resolution maybe it scales the SD better I guess
     
  12. xmguy

    xmguy Active Member

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    I use SD on my HR24 all the time. I usually always record HD. I will say this even with a Composite out to a RF Modulator the picture still looks clean and crisp. I can barely watch SD on my Vizio. I have a SV320XVT from a few years back. The scaling is good for the most part. Doesn't fill to every edge. I also use Native. Then when I'm in SD I use Letterbox or Crop depending if the station is in HD but the picture is in 4.3 (SD).
     
  13. TomCat

    TomCat Broadcast Engineer

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    You do not have to tell it to do this; there is a separate scaler circuit just for that purpose that automatically scales whatever the input rez or the recorded rez already is, to 480i, and that goes independently to the RCA/S outputs, which are not capable of other resolutions (but 16:9 aspect ratio will be available there). This circuit works independently from the scaler that allows you to change resolutions on the HD outputs. Since it always has the same output rez, you never have to be concerned with how to deal with it; its automatic, and you can put it out of your mind completely if you like.

    This is very similar to the automatic scaler in your TV, which also has but one output resolution. If you have a 1080p (or 720p) TV, the scaler in the TV automatically scales whatever resolution is sent to it to 1080p (or 720p).

    This practice is commonly combined with intelace/deinterlace, because some input resolutions are progressive while others are interlaced, and some outputs must usually be interlaced (the SD output in your DVR) while some must usually be progressive (the processor output inside a FP HDTV that feeds the display). That implies the need to often be able to change the input state whether interlaced or not, to an interlaced or progressive output, and that implies the need for interlace/deinterlace circuitry along with the rescaling circuitry.

    Both resolution scaling and interlace/deinterlace happen at essentially the same time, so we sometimes mistakenly and confusingly think of them as the same process. But they are not; they just typically happen together. When resolution is manipulated, there is a simultaneous deinterlacer for your TV that turns interlaced content to progressive, and there is a simultaneous interlacer for the SD outputs on your DVR that turns progressive to interlaced.

    But all of this is transparent to the user for the SD outputs on your DVR or what your TV requires; you don't need to concern yourself with manipulating or configuring either of those. They just happen. The only thing to be concerned about is choosing an output resolution/interlace method for the DVR's primary HD outputs, which is a one-time choice dependent mostly upon what TV you might have. And since the SD circuitry and outputs are fully independent from the main scaler and interlacer/deinterlacer in your DVR, that can be dealt with separately without you having to be concerned about the SD outputs.
     

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