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HR24- Losing Audio on SD programs when switching tuners

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by drwdbs, Nov 29, 2011.

  1. Shades228

    Shades228 DaBears

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    That would rule out the HDMI handshake part of it. So either the AVR cannot keep up or perhaps the receiver sends out the audio signal prior to the video, which I think is probably more accurate, and the receiver never gets it with the video signal.
     
  2. allenn

    allenn Icon

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    I played with it Thursday night, and I found that turning off Dolby Digital and back on in the HR24 restores the sound. There is definitely something happening on an HD to SD switch in the D* DVR.
     
  3. texasbrit

    texasbrit Well-Known Member

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    I did the test and everything worked fine, exactly as it was supposed to. I also tried several variations on the same test; again everything was OK. I have a Sony STR DH-810
     
  4. texasbrit

    texasbrit Well-Known Member

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    Yes, when you switch to SD the audio becomes PCM. What is happening is that the Denon is not detecting the switch from Dolby to PCM. I assume you have the Denon set to auto-detect on the audio input, not just set to Dolby??
    The failure to detect the switch to PCM is either a problem in the Denon autodetect logic, or there is something about the way the HR24 does the switch that the Denon does not like (but my Sony has no problem with).
     
  5. CCarncross

    CCarncross Hall Of Fame

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    Some of us with Denon's as well have not been able to reproduce this issue. I'm not saying allenn isn't having this issue, I'm quite sure he is, but I could not reproduce it with my HR20 or HR22 on my AVR-2809CI. It may be only affecting HR24's currently as well, or he may have a bad one.
     
  6. drwdbs

    drwdbs Cool Member

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    I am the original poster, and mine is very similar to allenn's.

    But for me, it doesn't happen EVERY time, and it usually only happens when the SD program that I switch to IS NOT LIVE. Most of the time, if both tuners are live (not rewound, etc), I don't have the issue.

    But if the SD program is paused or not live, I lose the audio when switching to it every single time....
     
  7. allenn

    allenn Icon

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    My testing has shown that my digital (coaxial) connection to the Denon AVR 3600 appears to be the problem. If I switch to Toslink, HD to SD works fine. I will say that this problem eminated itself in the prior release which is one of the reasons I replaced the HR22-100 with an HR24-100. Unfortunately, I have to use the Toslink to connect a PS3; so the digital connection is my only option. The AVR-3600 does not HDMI ports.
     
  8. CCarncross

    CCarncross Hall Of Fame

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    Wow, thats an old one isnt it?

    The AVR-3600 must be 10+ years old now....now we're getting somewhere. allenn, there might have been a firmware update for yours...but good luck finding one with it being that old if I'm thinking that its as old as I think it is. Don't get me wrong, thats a fantastic unit, but it wasnt built for the constant digital stream interruptions that occur when changing channels/sound modes in a modern dvr. Those chipsets were designed to start the stream at the beginning of the movie, and not stop until the end. If you pause your dvd player, you'll see that it keeps the audio stream locked, whereas the dvrs do not. This might be where the problem lies, also out of curiosity does that unit have an auto mode on it. My one from that area did not IIRC. SO it may not switch automatically from DD to LPCM. Unless it used to and you only starting having this problem when you upgraded to your HR24.
     
  9. allenn

    allenn Icon

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    It is actually, 8 years old (2003) at $1600.

    You may be correct in the switching, but why does the Toslink work but the digital (coaxial) has a problem? It would be nice to have a newer model, but retirement slows spending. I guess the positive side is an HR22-100 was replaced with a new HR24-100, and I have a work-around. Thanks for the reply!
     
  10. jkaetz

    jkaetz Cool Member

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    I will add that this is not only a denon problem. I have an older Onkyo with no HDMI and I ran into this problem tonight. I was able to reproduce the problem in a slightly different way. Start doubleplay and select a station that does not have a Dolby Digital stream with tuner 1. Switch to tuner 2 and select a station that is playing a dolby digital stream. Now switch back to tuner 1 and the audio will not return. I did find that if I return to tuner 2 and select a station without a Dolby Digital stream, then switch back to tuner 1, the audio is back. This seems to reinforce that it is a problem with the AVR switching between DD and PCM during doubleplay.

    Setup:
    HR20-100
    Firmware 057b
    Toslink to AVR: Onkyo TX-DS787
     
  11. allenn

    allenn Icon

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    jkaetz, your procedure causes my audio to drop too. Turning DD off and on or switching to SD, as you mentioned, will restore the audio. I called D* about the problem. Their solution is turnoff DD or switch to Toslink. In my case, neither suggestion is an option. Thanks!
     
  12. Shades228

    Shades228 DaBears

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    I think what happens is that the audio identifier is sent earlier than the video and the receiver doesn't catch the signal. I'm basing this on the fact that when I go to play a recorded show the audio shows up before the video does.
     
  13. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    I've got a -500 here and it has been having this problem randomly.
    HDMI audio seems fine, but both optical & coax audio has the problem.
    I too think it's the HR24-500, as changing AVR inputs has no effect, and sometimes changing the DVR back to an HD channel [Dolby] and back works, but last night I found simply cycling Dolby off/on got the audio back.
     
  14. texasbrit

    texasbrit Well-Known Member

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    We saw this problem a couple of years ago also, and CCarncross is correct about the core issue (at least one of them). The chipset is expecting the audio stream to stay locked, and (many of ) the DVRs don't lock the audio stream, what happens is the audio just switches from DD to PCM. The chip and the receiver is not expecting the change, it's expecting the DD stream to terminate cleanly and the PCM to start up cleanly and that does not happen all the time. At the time we first saw this problem, someone posted a technical analysis of the issue based on actually looking at the signal. The bottom line was, as I remember, that there was nothing in any of the specs that required the DVR to make a clean switch, but it might be better if it did.

    And FYI, although Denon receivers were most often mentioned as having this issue, Onkyo was next on the list. It's quite likely they used the same chip.

    None the less, it's interesting that this latest batch of reports all seem to involve the HR24-500.
     
  15. jkaetz

    jkaetz Cool Member

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    Just an update and note that it doesn't appear to be only the HR24 having a problem, my HR20-100 is showing the same behavior.

    Tonight I noticed that the non-DD tuner does have to be paused, or otherwise time shifting for the bug to present itself. If the non-DD tuner is playing live, then the audio switches like it is supposed to. I'd say the bug is definitely related to the DD -> pcm switch, but it works perfectly while playing live, just not time shifted. Pretty much exactly as the OP described.
     
  16. mroot

    mroot AllStar

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    I have this issue at times, too, and I am running a Yamaha AVR. I have found that if you hit the record button to record the channel that lost the audio, that you can then play it back from the recording and the audio is fine.
    I will have to see if it is recording an SD signal as I hadn't really payed attention to that, to see if it is indeed switching from an SD signal from HD. My wife is sick of this. I will also try turning off DD to see if that brings it back. I was going to call DTV and bitch about it, but I read on another thread that they (apparently) are aware of the issue.

    Thanks!
     
  17. ekkoville

    ekkoville New Member

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    I'm also having this problem also. I have an HR24-100 and a Pioneer AVR. I've found it on SD channels, DIY and Cooking network. The only fix I've found that works is changing the format on the picture, and I just stumbled onto that. I did try and change the DD to PCM but I never hit select and backed out of the menu so it may not have taken. I even recorded the show and it had no audio but I played it in another room on a H21 and it was fine. I have the AVR on stereo full time since its a bedroom and DD surround isn't needed. I'm not sure what is causing the problem.
     
  18. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    It seems to be a glitch about the receiver staying in DD 5.1, when it shouldn't, and should have shifted to PCM.
    Turning DD off, returns the sound, and then it stays when Dolby is selected [again] until the next time.
     
  19. ekkoville

    ekkoville New Member

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    ^^

    Since I really don't need DD 5.1 in the two speaker setup, maybe deselecting DD will solve it for now.
     
  20. kog

    kog Mentor

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    I've run into this issue with my HR20 connected via HDMI to my Pioneer AVR also. For me it's the Bloomberg channel. I found that if you go back into your playlist and find a recording that doesn't have DD sound and play it and then stop it. The audio from your live TV will come back.
     

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