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Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by slice1900, Nov 30, 2016.
Or just forget wiring and use wireless, problem solved.
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Getting back to the HS17, since the C61/C61K clients are MoCA 2.0 to go along with the HS17's faster coax networking, I wonder if the C61W-400 (made by WNC....when did they start making set top boxes??) on the RVU Alliance site is likewise using 802.11ac, designed to talk to the HS17's faster wireless networking?
UVerse install discussion moved to a new thread ---
I saw recently that LG is rumored to support 4Kp120 input on its 2018 OLED TVs, which will include at least one HDMI 2.1 input. That provides a perfect example of why a headless Genie makes sense.
If the HS17 was designed with video output, it could not have support for 4Kp120 output because HDMI 2.1 didn't exist when it was being designed. As it is, Directv merely needs a new model of client.
Given ESPN's statements about the importance of frame rate, I'm starting to wonder if the reason we haven't seen a 4K ESPN channel yet is that they are waiting for 4Kp120 support before launching...
I think the reason you haven't seen a 4K ESPN channel is simply cost and lack of capacity. DirecTV is pretty much the only provider that can be counted on to carry it. Cable definitely doesn't have the capacity, and Dish is pretty constrained as well. Plus, how many events does ESPN do that they would have 4K equipment available? Probably only big special events like championship games. The day to day stuff isn't produced by ESPN and the regional production houses and trucks aren't 4K yet.
Rogers in Canada has been having 4K hockey games for the last year and a half......No real excuses.....Just excuses....
I think ESPN is due to all of the issues over there right now. They are bleeding money pretty good right now
ESPN or the RSNs could easily produce at least some content in 4k, and the real sports nuts and sports bars are all on DirecTV anyway. The bigger question is how ESPN makes any money off of it over what they do now. Does anyone know what the cameras and trucks are? I.e. would it be easy for them to convert to 1080i60 for higher quality, or even 1080p? Or would that require all new trucks?
It would require a lot of new equipment in the trucks, not just cameras. And the real trick is that ESPN doesn't own most of the trucks, they're mostly independent production crews that ESPN contracts out
There is no such thing as "1080i60". No TV will accept a 1080i signal with 60 frames / 120 fields per second, and no set top box will output it, so it would be as useless to broadcast as broadcasting an 8K signal today would. A surprising number of older HDTVs will not accept 1080p60, there are no broadcast standards for 1080p60, and AFAIK Directv's HD receivers aren't capable of outputting 1080p60, only 1080p24. If a channel wants to go beyond 720p/1080i, they have to go all the way to 4K, there is no possible interim step.
Anyway, regardless of when 4Kp120 appears or who does it, having the flexibility to only require the replacement of clients to support it makes a lot of sense. Typically people put their whole home DVR on the "main TV", which would be the one most likely to get upgraded to 4Kp120 capability first, so the upgrades would hit those more expensive boxes first. With the server being headless, Directv won't need to replace them except for age, and only swap clients.
They clearly designed the C6x series with the HS17 in mind by putting MoCA 2.0 in the C61 and I have to assume faster wireless to match the HS17's in the C61W. 4Kp120 wasn't on the radar for the C61K, so down the road they'll need a new one there, but on the whole it looks like they'll have things pretty well sorted once the HS17 is released. People have complained about the HR54 being a crappy solution for 4K because it doesn't output 4K, but by the time they introduced that interim 4K solution they had obviously already decided on their headless strategy for the future. The HR54 is sort of a hybrid step along that path - it is a regular Genie as far as HD is concerned, but a headless server as far as 4K is concerned.
Nicely summed up.....
It being 1080i60 or 1080p60 or 2160p60?
1080i60 is 60 interlaced frames per second, or 30 complete frames per second. It is what about 60% of channels use today. You're nitpicking nomenclature.
That sort of makes sense, but who is going to have the bandwidth to transmit 2160p120? Or does the HEVC make it a small upgrade in bandwidth from 2160p60, since the delta between each frame drops in half even though the number of frames double?
I wish ESPN would just convert *everything* to 1080i, as opposed to a few things to 2160p, keeping a lot of stuff at 720p. 720p is a lousy format in today's world, 1080i would more than double the overall quality with little bandwidth penalty. Heck, the whole industry just needs to give up on 720p and move to the far superior 1080i.
The move from 720p to 1080i gets you very little, if anything. Quality of the feed is more important than any difference between those two.
That's interesting ... didn't know that.
Are these older HDTVs which cannot accept a 1080p60 input the early 720p types?
As I can't imagine any 1080p HDTV not accepting a 1080p60 signal since that is even the actual display rate most of them use.
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Think you meant "1080i60 is 60 fields per second, or 30 complete interlaced frames per second ... "
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Most HDTV's (up until probably the last five years or so I would guess) didn't accept 1080p60 because there wasn't anything that output at 1080p60 except computers, and most people don't hook computers up to their TVs. They just needed to accept 1080i for cable/satellite/ATSC, and 1080p24 for Blu-Ray/HD-DVD. Once you started seeing stuff like the Apple TV, Roku etc. then they started adding different signals they would accept since they started using different framerates.
Its really not nit picking. Frame rates are what are always used when denoting things like 1080i30. Not field rates. You seem to be saying field rates, although you said frames twice. They are very different things to actually say. I have never seen anyone use field rates and not frame rates in this way on purpose. You are honestly the first person I have seen do that.
For fast motion sports, many including me feel 720p produces better results than 1080i. Perhaps you don't agree, but either way ESPN is not going to change to 1080i, so if you want to see higher resolution you have to wait for them to introduce a 4K channel.
120 fps won't double bandwidth requirements, because the whole point of MPEG video compression is to save bandwidth compared to doing JPEG style compression of individual frames, but I don't know what the expected increase would be. If Directv plans to allocate 30 Mbps to a typical 4K channel, presumably a 4Kp120 channel would get more, just like they devote more bandwidth to some HD channels than others. Transponder bonding allows them more flexibility, as they aren't limited to the 39.4 Mbps they get from a typical CONUS Ka transponder today.
I think it is safe to say Directv will have ample bandwidth for 4K channels, even 4Kp120, when they start using reverse band. Most if not all cable providers plan to deliver their 4K channels using DOCSIS 3.1 based IP multicasting, not traditional QAM channels, so bandwidth won't be an issue. Mediacom is already there (in the nationwide rollout of DOCSIS 3.1 completed sense, not in the 4K sense) and Comcast is pushing hard.
Once again, it isn't important if the first 4Kp120 channel begins broadcasting a year from today, or takes years to appear, Directv will be fully prepared for it with the HS17. I'm willing to bet they have a client capable of 4Kp120 on a drawing board somewhere, if not an engineering mockup in a lab. They will know far enough in advance when it is needed to insure customers can get it when the first 4Kp120 channel arrives. The C61K used first generation HEVC chips, making it physically larger and more power hungry than HD clients. Perhaps not long after the HS17 rolls out we'll see a smaller second generation 4K client that adds unadvertised support for HDMI 2.1 for the 4Kp120 future, similar to how the "6 series" clients added unadvertised support for MoCA 2.0 for the HS17 future. I'm not aware of any particular reason why adding HDMI 2.1 support would add much cost. It isn't quite free, but there is no licensing upcharge, so it is just a matter of when HDMI 2.1 PHYs become available.
I'd place a wager most of them are already equipped to handle 1080i, but even if they're only able to handle 720 at this point, the only upgrades that make sense is to go all the way to 4K. Spending tens of thousands on routers, monitors, and cameras just to get to the state of the art 10 years ago doesn't make sense
Hs17 (from DirecTV rep in advanced tech support) was told it will support 2 4k streams. As well as over 20 tuners. This system is already being beta tested and is working beautifully. Expect an announcement at directv's revolution conference.