HS17-100

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by slice1900, Nov 30, 2016.

  1. Mar 10, 2017 #861 of 2175
    Stevies3

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    What is expected release date?


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  2. Mar 10, 2017 #862 of 2175
    slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah the pre-beta document an installer who installed a few for testing posted stated the same thing about two 4K streams. Still wondering exactly why that limit would exist. Even if it is handling the bonded transponders in software (which it must if Directv is not using DVB-S2X) I have a hard time seeing why it couldn't easily handle 7 (the max number of bonded 4K channels you could manage given 15 SWM channels) My money is on that being an artificial limit imposed by software that will be lifted down the road.

    As for 20 tuners, what we've seen (SWM-15 on the coax input, resumes from people involved with it, doing the math given available chips) suggests 15. Sure, they could make it support more if they wanted, but who exactly is the target market for more than 15 tuners? They're going to have to allow for more than one HS17 on an account if this is their long term direction, so there's little value in making each one cost a few bucks more to add tuners a tiny fraction of 1% of their userbase will ever use. Make those outliers get a second one.

    Expected release appears to be August, with a couple markets getting them in April. So announcing it at the Revolution conference in a week and a half seems like a good bet. We'll know much more then.
     
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  3. Mar 10, 2017 #863 of 2175
    CraigerM

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    I saw DTV's Revolution Conference is March 20th is that right? However looks like I will have to get the HR-54/C61k anyway. Not sure if I even need 15 tuners. HR-44 that I have the picture is starting freeze sometimes. I just ordered a Sony 65" 4k TV and it will be delivered next Saturday. Got the protection plan so the upgrade will be free.
     
  4. Mar 10, 2017 #864 of 2175
    compnurd

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    It will still have a 2 year agreement I believe.. You may want to save that and hold out until this gets more pop on the 20th
     
  5. Mar 10, 2017 #865 of 2175
    JosephB

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    Probably starting to run into bandwidth issues on the DECA network. Think about it: two 4K streams and however many remaining HD streams. Also, going to start running into bandwidth problems on the hard drive
     
  6. Mar 10, 2017 #866 of 2175
    slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    The HS17, C61 and C61K all support MoCA 2.0, which has a minimum spec of 400 Mbps and can be as high as 800 Mbps depending on if they use twin channels. That's more than enough for the seven 4K channels it would max out at - at 30 Mbps per 4K channel that's barely half of 400 Mbps.

    But could be that they won't enable the MoCA 2.0 capability right away, maybe that's why the initial support for only two 4K streams...
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2017
  7. Mar 10, 2017 #867 of 2175
    JosephB

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    That's what the spec allows, but is that what DirecTV is counting on having available? You have to think they are building in some allowances for less than perfect networking

    Also, is this 4K limit on the tuner side or on the stream side? Could you record more than 2 4K programs at once? or could you watch 3 recorded 4K things at once?

    Are you limited to 2 4K clients period, or just 2 4K sessions at once?
     
  8. Mar 10, 2017 #868 of 2175
    slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    If the HR44 is starting to freeze you should get it replaced as defective. Then you'd still have your upgrade available if you want the HS17 later this year when its available. Even if like most people you have no need of 15 tuners, it is bound to be faster than the HR44/HR54, and may get new features added down the road old school Genies never do.

    Well, assuming they consider Genie -> Genie Air to be an "upgrade". You never know with Directv...
     
  9. Mar 10, 2017 #869 of 2175
    slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully some of these questions will be answered in two weeks, but even then I wouldn't count on those answers to remain set in stone. Like I pointed out in an earlier post, Directv seems to have prepared pretty well to make the HS17 a very long lived box. So I find hard to imagine they would somehow design themselves into a corner with something permanently limited in the 4K realm.
     
  10. Mar 10, 2017 #870 of 2175
    CraigerM

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    After the HS-17 comes out I wonder if you would be guaranteed an HS-17 with the HR-54 still being available?
     
  11. Mar 10, 2017 #871 of 2175
    JosephB

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    Maybe, but look at how much they iterated on the Genie, even without adding any functionality until the HR-54. Just because this looks like it could last a while doesn't mean they can't/won't change it next year or in two years. Given that a final solution for U-Verse/IPTV customers is still outstanding and they are about to start rolling out 5G, I don't see them standing still even after they release this one. It being a good, stable platform could just mean that it's a good stable platform to base future modifications on.

    There are probably going to be ways to assure that you get one of these. Prime example would likely be single TV 4K customers
     
  12. Mar 10, 2017 #872 of 2175
    slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    Oh I'm not suggesting they'll never introduce another model, but I think they will be essentially identical other than maybe hard drive capacity. When the chips they are using get superceded, or they have an opportunity for cost reduction, we'll see a new model. But I'm betting the replacement(s) won't do anything that the HS17 can't. Because it won't need to.
     
  13. Mar 10, 2017 #873 of 2175
    CraigerM

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    If the HS-17 supports wireless RVU would that be a cool connection to do with an RVU TV or client box? I guess it would depend on what type of wireless range it would have?
     
  14. Mar 10, 2017 #874 of 2175
    slice1900

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    I see that Solid Signal published a white paper about the use of HR54s for commercial establishments to get 4K that I mentioned a couple weeks ago (with DVR services disabled for those like bars not allowed to use them)

    The funny thing is that it treats the HR54 like an HS17 - it says you aren't supposed to hook up the HR54 to a TV, and apparently not any other clients, only the C61K(!) For every 4K TV, you'd need another HR54/C61K pair at $268. Man what a cluster* that solution is, if I wanted to upgrade all my TVs to 4K I'd need to engineer quite the messy setup to support over a dozen SWM16s, not to mention finding room for all those useless HR54s! :rolleyes:

    Good thing I have no desire to catch the 4K train anytime soon, but hopefully that solution will get a lot cleaner with the HS17. Regardless I'm sure I'll pick one up when they become available along with a 4K and regular client to play around with.
     
  15. Mar 10, 2017 #875 of 2175
    slice1900

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    It supports wireless RVU to clients, like the existing Genie does. Since the Genie currently doesn't support wireless RVU to a RVU TV, I wouldn't hold my breath for Directv to support that with the HS17.
     
  16. Mar 10, 2017 #876 of 2175
    CraigerM

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    The other thing we don't know is if the HS-17 will be a server/client only system with its own separate dish? Also if the HS-17 is a separate server/client system will it work along side the current H/HR equipment and that dish?
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2017
  17. Mar 10, 2017 #877 of 2175
    slice1900

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    There's no technical reason it wouldn't work, but Directv could make a decision for other reasons not to allow it.

    I wonder if they enforced that for testing to avoid MoCA 1.1 / 2.0 issues? They are designed to interoperate, but they might have wanted to reduce the variables during testing. We'll probably have to wait until August to find out the scoop.
     
  18. Mar 10, 2017 #878 of 2175
    CraigerM

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    Or maybe at the DirecTV Revolution Conference we will found out its capabilities?
     
  19. Mar 11, 2017 #879 of 2175
    Bigg

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    Well actually, if you have a decent bitrate, switching from 720p to 1080i gets you a LOT more clarity, with very little, if any noticable loss in smoothness, assuming you have a good de-interlacer. Content like basketball benefits a lot from 1080i, even though ESPN does about as good of doing a 720p feed as anyone.

    The first generation or two of 1080p TVs didn't accept 1080p. At the time all the source content was 1080i or 720p, so the idea is they would display either equally as well vs. choosing between a 1080i or 720p TV.

    Again, you're nitpicking terminology. I understand how the technology of 1080i works, but in terms of terminology, I think it's more correct to say 60 frames per second, understanding that each frame only has half of the lines in it in an interlaced signal, allowing a good de-interlacer to effectively transform a 1080i60 signal into a 1080p60 signal with the full set of lines in every frame.

    I'm not surprised that ESPN is stubborn about 1080i, but I have watched both 1080i and 720p for similar content (basketball), and there is no question that 1080i is a better looking picture. The only reason for 720p is for people with crappy deinterlacers. I'd rather have a nice 1080i feed so I can choose how good of a deinterlacer to get clean, smooth motion I use versus a 720p feed with less resolution where there's nothing I can do to make it sharper. I can see the deinterlacing artifacts, but they are rare and far between compared to the lack of sharpness in 720p that is there during the whole game.

    That makes sense. The deltas are much smaller between each frame. Then again, I have no clue what the point of 2160p120 is. There is no 2160i60, although that would be an awesome format for "bang for the buck" in terms of bandwidth usage. I suppose if there are only a couple of channels that go 4k, then bandwidth doesn't really matter, since DirecTV has the entire RB.

    Cable isn't there yet. They have DOCSIS 3.1, but they need to convert their TV service over to IPTV before they will have a enough DOCSIS bandwidth to deliver 4k at scale. Comcast has already deliver 2160p60 via IPTV (through an app not a box), but so few people could get it that it didn't matter from a bandwidth perspective. They might be able to deliver a channel or two to a few subscribers at an extra charge now, a few years down the road they may be able to start scaling it up via IPTV.

    Yeah, the architecture of the HS17 is good for the future. I'm not convinced we'll ever see 2160p120 or that there is any point to it, but it will be ready to handle anything from HD through 2160p120 if/when that ever comes along the line, and it will allow them to push 4k more to multiple TVs, maybe making the service a bit more sticky for higher end subscribers if they can get the content in line.

    Yeah, that's what I'm trying to figure out.
     
  20. Mar 11, 2017 #880 of 2175
    peds48

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    There are FIELDS and Frames rates and those CAN'T be used interchangeably.



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