HS17-100

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by slice1900, Nov 30, 2016.

  1. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    during initial [long] part of the STB boot, time of CPU cycles processing APG is minuscule to bit-rate of APG streams (!);
    adding to that, the STB doing tuning to each a few tpns with own portion of APG by one network tuner (for different networks the data are streaming on different tpns) what would add time too

    as a similar process - regardless of how many horsepower in your car, gas topping would limit of your refueling time in whole short trip
     
  2. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Gold Club DBSTalk Club

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    The bootleneck that I see is max two 4K clients. Twice what one can do today on an HR54 but basically a limit of two 4K TVs per household until the replacement for the HS17 is introduced (or the HS17 is upgraded - if possible - to more 4K clients. Unless there is some weirdness where a client is a 4K client as needed and falls back to being a regular client when not watching 4K content. But that still limits the system to two 4K playbacks in the household at one time. Probably OK today but for how long?
     
  3. peds48

    peds48 Genius.

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    Being that there is nothing inherently differently between a regular client and a 4K client as far as RVU is concern, one can deduced that the limit is for streams and not that clients themselves.

    As it stands now, you can have up to eight 4K clients with an HR54 so no reason to believe truly can have that many with the 17 as it has the same eight client limitation.


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  4. Bill Broderick

    Bill Broderick Icon

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    Gotcha. Thanks. The limitations of this unit are disappointing. Even Cablevision is providing 10 recordable tuners (it may be 15 now) on their networked DVR's.

    If the limitation of only being able to use this with clients (no receivers or DVR's) doesn't change, I'm still better off with my Genie and two HR-24's than with

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  5. AZ.

    AZ. Legend

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    I really dont think any cable company has the bandwidth to do anything close to what your saying with 4k! HD yes,SD yes, 4k, not a chance
     
  6. Bill Broderick

    Bill Broderick Icon

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    Cablevision is recording remotely. So, recordings don't require any bandwidth. The playback does. I never need more than 2 streams at a time. When I need more than one, that's only because I'm copying something to the hard drive of my DVD recorder. So, I don't see myself needing multiple 4K streams simultaneously for a long time.

    Don't get me wrong, I find the latency caused by Cablevision remote recording unacceptable (although, I have to admit that it has gotten better). But, 7 recordable tuners, while eliminating the ability to have additional DVR's in the system, is not reallyich of a step forward.

    If they made all 11 tuners available for recording non-4K programming, but then used 3 of those tuners to record a 4K, program (meaning that they would be down to 7 simultaneous recordings when recording two 4K programs) , that would be far more acceptable.

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  7. peds48

    peds48 Genius.

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    The problem with that is then you would have customers doing the math. So they record ten programs but then they can watch that 4K show.


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  8. Bill Broderick

    Bill Broderick Icon

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    Are you saying that tuners would be required to serve recorded 4K content or are you talking about trying to watch a 4k show live? If the latter, couldn't they just give the same conflict screen that they currently use on HR's and indicate any 4K programming and the fact that it requires 3 tuners? They already have a limit that you can only record (or watch) two 4K programs simultaneously. So, there already needs to be new messaging to address someone trying to record or watch three.

    Question... Do the same 3 tuners need to be "bonded" (I don't know the correct terminology for this) in order to record 4K or is it variable?

    For example, would tuner 1 need to be bonded with tuners 8 & 9 and tuner 2 bonded with 10 & 11 to record 4K or if they made all tuners recordable, is it even feasible to "bond" any three available tuners (1, 7 & 11 for example) at the time of the recording?

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  9. HoTat2

    HoTat2 Hall Of Fame

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    Say, I'm lost here ...

    When did the need go to "3" tuners for recording a 4K program?

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  10. Bill Broderick

    Bill Broderick Icon

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    Take a look at slices post# 1027 that peds pointed me to earlier.

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  11. HoTat2

    HoTat2 Hall Of Fame

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    Ok, just reread it ...

    But don't see anything about 3 tuners needed to record a 4K channel, but 2 bonded tuners per 4K channel.

    Are you sure you're not confusing DIRECTV's future goal of "3" 4K programs multiplexed over two bonded transponders with needing "3" tuners to record one 4K program?

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  12. slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    There's never been even a hint of this officially, but a lot of us assumed Directv would mirror the international channels on 95* using reverse band, because it would make so much sense - then when they did an international install, instead of requiring two dishes and a SWM8, they could install a Slimline with reverse band LNB. They'd save a lot of money in both equipment and installer time.

    However, they haven't used reverse band for anything yet, and there's no hint of when they will. The closer it gets to 2019 when MPEG2 SD (which includes 95*) shuts down, the less money they'd save from doing this and the greater the likelihood of status quo. The G3C satellite at 95* is pretty old, and its replacements have already been launched and put into operation. The new satellites aren't capable of broadcast to the US, so it looks very likely that after 2019 95* will simply go away, and those channels will be carried in MPEG4 SD on Directv's US satellite fleet.

    Even if they did mirror those international channels in reverse band, it would only be temporary. If they wanted to make it the permanent home after 2019 they'd have to upgrade every international customer to a reverse band LNB before the cutoff date. That's also why I don't think they'll wind up on 119 - they'd have to upgrade them all to a SL5 LNB. If the post-2019 permanent home of the international channels is 99/101/103 then international customers won't require an installer visit (unless they are also SD only) making it very cheap.

    The stat muxes they use to dynamically shape the bandwidth of the various channels sharing a transponder require every channel use the same compression. They can mix MPEG4 HD and MPEG4 SD in the same transponder, but can't mix MPEG4 HD and MPEG2 SD, and unless things have changed with HEVC capable stat muxes, could not mix HEVC 4K and MPEG4 SD.
     
  13. Bill Broderick

    Bill Broderick Icon

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    I may have made the leap, with the HR-54 having 7 tuners (but only 5 usable) and being able to record one 4K program and the HS17 having 11 tuners (but only 7 usable) and being able to record two 4K programs, along with slices post regarding the "bonding" of tuners for 4K recording to mean that the two extra "unusable" tuners, per 4K program that can be recorded, are required for that 4K recording.

    If I incorrectly jumping to conclusions based on slices post (and the fact that peds pointed me to that post, which tells me that slices assumptions are probably lying accurate), I hope that someone can clarify.

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  14. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    unless DTV cannot afford/buy/use same H.265 & H.264 encoders what are working in Europe and perfectly broadcasting muxes of UHD and MPEG-4 SD channels on same tpn
     
  15. slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    They are using HEVC/h.265 for their 4K? Good to hear that limitation has been removed. Not that Directv is likely to ever do that, but it is nice to have the option.
     
  16. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    I'm now expecting the 95 stuff to land on 101 myself. Personally I'd be mirroring it right now today on BSS for any new installs. Then it won't matter where they end up after 95 goes away because the customer would have the lnb for them to be located anywhere.
     
  17. JosephB

    JosephB Icon

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    Are they in the same mux, though?
     
  18. peds48

    peds48 Genius.

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    Yes 4K requires two tuners, dont know if they need to be sequential. So in addition to customers keeping track of how many can be recorded at the same time, having them figure out that X can be 4K and X can be HD can be confusing for some folks, so better to keep it standard across all channels.


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  19. CraigerM

    CraigerM Well-Known Member

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    So does having SWIM 15 on the HS-17 mean you can only have seven recordings going at the same time while being able to watch 8 shows at the same time?
     
  20. Bill Broderick

    Bill Broderick Icon

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    Apparently not.

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