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I don't like DMAs/territories (was Dish wont let me install??)

Discussion in 'Legislative and Regulatory Issues' started by geoffinak, Apr 22, 2007.

  1. geoffinak

    geoffinak Mentor

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    Mar 30, 2007
    Ever see how many magazines there are, how many choices of of say outdoor, hunting, fishing, shooting magazines. 100s If I pay to see distant channels the Uncle Charlie is going to be paying for and making money off of me, then that should be my choice, not the FCC, who is owned by Rupert and the Fat Cat 4 anyway. If out of market were truly the law of the land why am I stuck watch the Braves and Jaws on the Superstations. It just limits my choice. It's like your internet should be held locally because you may buy something, see something or learn something, from someone in another city or heaven for bid another state. It limits our view of our country, what are the other news stations saying as opposed to mine. I find that very interesting. I have family and friends all over the country, If I want to pay to get a station, it should be available. This advertising dog just don't hunt. Car dealers, please, I am not going to have pity for Cal Worthington and his Dog Spot. Or for Mr Nye and his band of merry dealers either. Car dealers seem to make money just fine, although they all have internet sales departments that sell out of state. Nothing protects that or stops that. I can order a new car, fly and get it or hire a drive away.
    Geoff
     
  2. geoffinak

    geoffinak Mentor

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    Mar 30, 2007
    It would be interesting to see when the Federal Laws were made. Back when antenna TV was all there was and if some one blew out a few more thousand more watts it would overlap. Most likely the majority are.

    The laws most airlines operate under, were made in the 30s. You may be flying with a pilot who had a rest period of 10 hours, from cockpit door to hotel, eat, sleep get up, shower and get to pre flight planning downstairs. They probably have just has been flying 6 days in a row, 14 hour duty days, with a Max 10 hours of flight time. hmmm think about that your next take off..

    Freedom of choice, if a company puts out a product I should be able to buy it. I paid extra to get those out of local channels, when I really did not think I should have to. But so be it. There is not one thing I can not buy out of market, if I order it and pay for it. Including soft drinks and yes I do pay the driver the freight to get the brand I want, but I get what I want, because I like that brand. I am a consumer, if I am willing to buy meet my demands or like some of the others above you actually encourage a end run.

    I also think of this as freedom of information, same way I can buy a newspaper and have it mailed. It's not healthy to restrict information. Other then connivence of time factors. I liked out of area stations for the news and information it gave me about life in the area of coverage. It makes me a tad wiser to understand New York, Denver, LA Views, then just one areas. Especially in this day of the internet, I think for commercial TV to survive, your going to have to give me different views, other then the same" bubble headed bleach blond " every night. It's interesting to see the national view and the local view of the reporters in different areas. I don't see the big deal, I do not see loss of advertising, the hurt of local market. I am sure someone from New York may want San Diego. It averages out. We are a mobile society especially the west and i just fail to see any drawback to this. Other then the FCC governing me, telling me , what I can see and what I can not see.
    Geoff
     
  3. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    IIRC the law was written in 1999. The law gave PERMISSION for satellite carriers to carry a local network station outside of their own market if the customer could not pick up any other stations of that network. There were a few other exceptions and the law has been adjusted since 1999.
     
  4. geoffinak

    geoffinak Mentor

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    Mar 30, 2007
    SMosher
    Yes this really stinks too. If I may ask, how much did it cost to get Rupert's Satellite going. I was looking at a minimum set up, a DVR recorder would be nice, but not mandatory and I would like to dump it as soon as baseball ends. The Package is actually cheaper then Dish was last year but I think I missed the cut off. Maybe they might give me a deal, if I said this is why I am joining.

    I wonder how much is baseball running this and how much is Rupert. Ole Rup he controls a lot of what we see and hear.This guy has a lot of influence and $$$$$

    I would think this would just be plain stupid for baseball to limit viewers to one company, what is the sense, it only aides rupert. Anywhoo, any tips, tricks or flips, would be greatly appreciated ...and yes I was a tad upset at Charlie, actually Dish has been really dropping the ball, so to speak lately. Charlie will get Cricket or goofy British guys with no teeth and brains to kick each other for hundreds of dollars but Americas Past Time NOOO. Can't have that. This really hurts MLB and they do not need any negative exposure in fact need max exposure. Those salaries are getting really steep.
    Fair market sharing is the answer to baseball woes. That is the Yankees and Atlanta on al the time and having all the bucks, while Kansas and small market teams wither, unless their are major injuries on the Bankees.
    Thanks Geoff
     
  5. geoffinak

    geoffinak Mentor

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    Mar 30, 2007
    The law stinks and who are the laws written by, and who in there would you trust to make a law that was in the best interest of the consumer and not the Mega Business owners. Which most locals are owned by larger broadcasters corporations anyway.

    The government is supposed to serve the people. How do these laws serve us in any way that benefits the average consumer. 1999 is a long time in tech world .
    Freedom of choice, what is so hard to understand and what does it take away from anyone that makes it so detrimental that it is feared and illegal.
    Geoff
     
  6. SaltiDawg

    SaltiDawg Active Member

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    You cited one example where you disagree. The boundaries seem proper here in the Washington, DC, suburbs. I guess they are not silly at all? :rolleyes:
     
  7. Sharkie_Fan

    Sharkie_Fan Hall Of Fame

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    notice it said MANY, not ALL... Just cause you're lines are drawn in an area that makes sense doesn't mean they ALL are... I'm really glad you get all the channels you want.

    Take a look through the forums sometime and look at all the posts of people who are 20 miles from one city and 40 miles from another, and yet because of the way the DMAs are drawn up, they get locals from the one 40 miles away...

    The laws are in place to protect local advertising dollars, so that when I watch TV, I see commercials that are local to me... The problem is with the arbitrary boundary drawing in some cases, the advertising isn't really local. If I'm going to make a purchase, I go to San Jose, not Salinas... but the only advertising I see is from Salinas...

    I'm not complaining that the DMAs are in place and that the FCC is out to protect local dollars. As a small business person, i understand the idea of keeping the revenues "local". I also understand that lines had to be drawn SOMEWHERE... and sometimes those lines may not have been in the most ideal location, but there had to be a cutoff somewhere... All I'm asking for is some mechanism by which satellite can provide neighboring locals the way cable does... Charter & Comcast here realize that SJ is more local to us than Salinas, and so we get some of the SJ local channels on our cable lineup - channels which satellite is not allowed to provide to me.
     
  8. SMosher

    SMosher Godfather

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    D* was out here within less than 3 days to install 1 HD dual tuner DVR and 2 SD dual tuners, 1 6x8 switch and 1 AU9 dish for $350.00 (ouch only due to me being a long time holder of D* 7 years ago). I got D* just to watch MLB EI and the pq to me is horrible. Don't matter to me if its in HD or not.

    I have been on the phone everyday about with E* and MLB about this bullcrap D* has decided to pull. MLB states and I quote "Echostar decided not to pay market value for MLB EI as the others did". May I remind one who set that market value in the first place, D*. As far as turning up the RSNHDs lately, BFD when anything thats going to be on them is blacked out unless of course its in your DMA, which in my DMA the RSN (FOXBA) still hasn't been turned up yet. MLB and their gross greed has stopped America's game from being in a few select homes for the American dollar. Its MLB that refuses to budge from their stupid price on this package. MLB has also said "You can always get these game via the internet". I had to ask Tim Brosnan, "Have you seen the quality of that crap even at 700k?".

    Its all ******** and we as customers will pay either way. I'm with you on the whole DMA thing. I have the WB package from E* and watching news and such on those stations is great.

    My rants for the last 2 months are more than clear at this point. DBS as we know it will be changed within the next 2 years. I just feel it.

    Hey just think ... Maybe AT&T will buy E* and then they can mess that up like they did the rest of the country. I worked there, I'm shocked you can still get a dial tone. And yes, it was said in meetings that its an idea the AT&T purchase of E*.

    Ok, enough about how pist I am at the American markets and their decisions. Enjoy your day Geoff.
     
  9. Mikey

    Mikey Hall Of Fame

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    Freedom of choice isn't guaranteed by the Bill of Rights. In a free market economy with unlimited resources, everything would be available to everyone, for a negociable price. The NAB and their members have used the considerable influence they've gained over the years to pressure Congress into some restrictive legislation. In return, Congressmen get access to local outlets for political campaigns (also lucrative for the stations), and have their faces on the local news periodically. Congress knows that if the whole country has free access to any market they choose, that eventually most of the local stations would collapse from lack of advertising, and the politicians' local platform would disappear.

    To take an example from MLB, the Yankees have the biggest market, and the most income. They use that income to buy the best players. Without some form of revenue sharing, the Yankees would dominate baseball forever. The MLB luxury tax provisions level the playing field somewhat. So maybe that's the answer for local television, too. Let anyone pay some a-la-carte fee for whatever market they choose, but create a windfall profits mechanism that would feed some portion of the fees/ad revenue back to the smaller local markets.
     
  10. oljim

    oljim Godfather

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    If the network are so protetive of local stations, how come I can go to CBS.com and watch the NCIS that will air tonight without any local adds
    Top this off with the local FOX and ABC is still in SD, mono and has no HD signal.
    And this is from a city in top 100 DMA
     
  11. Greg Bimson

    Greg Bimson Hall Of Fame

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    I suppose then you won’t buy a house or a car because of “this stupidity of contracts”. You can complain about these contracts all you want, but…

    Your problem is that you’ve missed everything as it relates to business.

    If I make a movie and wish it to be shown on NBC, I generally want “the network” to show the movie. NBC decides on the timeslot, and all of that fun stuff. Of course NBC has already decided that the entire network should receive it. And I get paid for the “exclusive” I’ve given to NBC.

    And then because NBC only owns 10 out of the over 200 NBC affiliates nationwide, NBC would prefer each station to only show the movie in their area. This way, each station can get an exclusive and then sell programming to advertisers based upon the exclusive amount of eyeballs that should be drawn to my movie.

    Everyone gets to make money off of this scheme.
    As I recall, the government does not wish to do much in the regulation of business.

    So some of “the people” own stocks and run television stations. Not all of “the people” want something to benefit the average consumer.

    After all, it is the “freedom of choice” for NBC to sign exclusive contracts with affiliates to keep you from watching the same programming from a separate, distant affiliate.
    And just because local channels are owned by larger corporations doesn’t mean their needs are any less different than a single person owning a single network station, unless you are trying to be a socialist.

    You also have to remember the laws that have been passed as it relates to satellite television. Without those laws, there would be no local nor network television on satellite. The original 1988 law allowed for distant network television because the networks were going to start scrambling their backhauls, and the government (specifically Congress) knew the value of “network television” to those in rural areas that could not pick up a reliable signal. It wasn’t envisioned there would be a point where over 90 percent of the local networks would become available over satellite.

    Every other law has been a revision to this core law. The last pass at the law, in 2004, recognized the fact that there are satellite companies that are providing local stations which include network programming. Because local network programming is available to a large majority of the nation, there was no longer a need for distant networks in areas which are served by a local network broadcaster.
    Speak for yourself!

    I live in Crofton, Maryland. I am in Anne Arundel County, which is in the Baltimore market, but I am the same distance away from both the DC and the Baltimore transmission towers. There are places in this county that are 40 miles from Baltimore and 20 miles from DC. The cable company here can offer the DC and Baltimore locals, but DirecTV has not done so yet. While Dish Network had the ability to retransmit distant networks, Dish Network had both the DC and Baltimore major networks here. So this is specifically a DirecTV problem.
    I think CBS waits until after the airing of the show is over on the network before it is pushed through the internet from their site.

    Like every other network, CBS has a contract with their affiliates which dictate the terms how programming is shown. The easiest example is that CBS owns their affiliate which has the largest reach, WCBS in New York. CBS doesn’t want competition from another CBS station, so that CBS can charge the maximum amount per ad on WCBS. So if I am Gannett, which owns the DC CBS station, I would want that exact same protection which CBS gives itself. And I’d receive that protection, in the form of a contract. What I must give up is that I cannot resell the CBS programming to anyone else, so I cannot distribute CBS programming nationwide.

    It is this contract which also gives the affiliates “first-run” rights. Therefore, CBS will not knowingly air the first-run of a show on the internet until it has finished its timeslot on the CBS Network. In other words, CBS has affiliate contracts to make sure that each area has an assigned, exclusive area.

    So you cannot get ABC, NBC, CBS or FOX from another area. It is because the networks don’t want you to see their programming from another area. So why does everyone blame the government when more blame should be on the networks?
     
  12. geoffinak

    geoffinak Mentor

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    Mar 30, 2007
    I would love to address the revenue sharing that MLB needs but I can't let this go.
    Our government, who is there to serve the people, is not supposed accept our displeasure because possibly it could effect their election. I can not have freedom of the airways because the politicians local platform would collapse. That's why we have to give up OUR rights. When has there ever been a meaningful, honest debate, political ads, talk no substance. It's all a joke and the 2% that control this country are laughing their guts out as they have us.

    OH you forgot, the Bill of Rights, they do not work any more. George found a better way. It's called Patriotic Act 2. Which followed the Patriotic Act which everyone found so repulsive, that they promised a sunset date. Well that date came up and George was told to say it worked so good that we just might keep it a lot longer.
    Nobody cared, nobody really put up a fuss and our congress and Senate sailed it right through with only 2 people voting no.

    You deserve the kind of government we have right now and have been sinking too since the Kennedy's were hit. Eisenhower warned us. For the last 40 years, going deeper and deeper into the corporate void to where the politicians are just a joke. There is no political platforms, their elected by money. "President Bush because we need Honor in the White House." That tells me a lot about the candidate. Heck he cheated and had an ear piece to help with answers.

    These guys need to get out and really talk but I am not going to rant on this, it's gone already. You have no Constitution and and that idiot running around out there, if told so by his owners. Could start a war, another one and use nukes without any reason. Patriotic Act 2 is the law of the land now. Think your going to get the Constitution back. Who will do that??? Their all bought off and most everyone fell asleep at the wheel in the Burger King drive through as it happened.

    This is why there is no health care, that people work 2 jobs, kids are raised at day care, because both parents have to work, we rank 17th in the world in education K-12 and only 23% make it through a 4 year degree and 17% a 6 year degree.
    We do not teach advanced, math, science, and languages to our kids. Our old people try to get by on Medi Care and Social Security and chose between medicine and food or rent. What are we doing, where are we going. What have we accomplished in the last 7 years.

    We no longer make anything, we assemble some of our military equipment here. The computer chips are made in China, Korea, Japan and a off switch could be installed and with a flip of a switch it all stops and we have no way to detect this.

    We are number one in the world combining every country there is in one thing. They amount we spend on military expenditures. We spend more then the world combined. We know more ways to kill people then heal them.

    We are a service industry, all the brains we import from other countries with higher standards of education. Our Universities are filled with foreign students.

    Read some Thomas Jefferson, the guys who thought up this democracy a few centuries back, were smart guys and it held a lot of promise, now since saving the world from possible tyrants, we look to the sky and say what are we and who controls this country. It's not the government, it's supposed to be the people, but it's lost and nobody has the will to get it back.

    I am lucky I live in Alaska, it's in the lower 48 that it will get real ugly when the leg comes off the economy, which has been fueled by homes being refied. The govt. is throwing billions into stopping the collaspe. And you worry the politicians will not have locals to give their interesting platform speeches on. It's all an act, there either in or their out.
    Geoff
     
  13. Mikey

    Mikey Hall Of Fame

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    Ok Geoff, take your meds, and chill a bit. I'd love for there to be a less restrictive way to access signals from distant DMAs. If you want to sponsor the "Freedom of Choice" amendment to the Constitution, great, I'll vote for it.
     
  14. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Geoff ... you need to stay on the topic of DMAs ... general political rants are off topic in all forums at DBSTalk. Focus on the topic, please.

    :backtotop
     
  15. geoffinak

    geoffinak Mentor

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    Mar 30, 2007
    Ok Jim, sorry but he hit on political lines, I just answered what he did not know.
    But I get it.
    Thanks
    Geoff
     
  16. robert koerner

    robert koerner Icon

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    <So you cannot get ABC, NBC, CBS or FOX from another area. It is because the networks don’t want you to see their programming from another area. So why does everyone blame the government when more blame should be on the networks?>

    Because, the sat signals reach "local" and nationwide simultaneously.

    At one time "local" transmissions (territories) were parceled out to insure non-interference. That was the environment when and where the FCC condoned restraint of trade (TV/radio signals).

    For the time being, the FCC has chosen to protect local markets, instead of allowing viewers to be able to select their source for programming.

    As it is now, some people have access to HD network programming, while others, without local HD, are forbidden to view the exact same HD network programming.

    Local stations do not want us to be able to view identical programming from some where else because they want our eyeballs. The more eyeballs they get, the more money they get.

    This highlights our part in TV broadcasting, simply a way for broadcasters to make money. Programming is only a method to attract you to the paying message, advertising.

    Tha'ts our only purpose to local broadcasters, to provide them with eyeballs they can sell.

    In addition to local broadcasters wanting to keep our eyeballs, there are locals who want to keep your eyeballs local also, like local advertisers, and local governments. Ever have to watch an Amber alert on a program you've recorded? Think the locals care that by the time you get stuck with the disruption, the alert is long over.

    None of those entities care if we want to watch "programming" from outside of our "local" market. They just want to make sure we can't.

    The ONLY way they can enforce their will is through the FCC.

    Bob
     
  17. Steve Mehs

    Steve Mehs Hall Of Fame

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    I’m I the Buffalo market and on the edge of the county where Buffalo is in, my county is not legally able to receive significantly viewed locals from cable or satellite, but I do get Rochester locals in HD via unencrypted QAM. I watched the Super Bowl in HD on WROC-DT from Rochester. My local CBS affiliate lost me as a viewer for the biggest TV event of the year. I do most of my shopping 60 miles away in the Rochester area, especially larger purchases, I don’t want my sales tax dollars going to support my county. I’d love to be able to get Rochester locals instead of Buffalo on my cable box instead of having to hook the cable line directly to the TV and losing DVR functionality.
     
  18. Geronimo

    Geronimo Native American Potentate DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Where did you get that idea?
     
  19. Mikey

    Mikey Hall Of Fame

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    It could be true for the stations owned and operated by the networks.
     
  20. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    The FCC doesn't care about territories and content (beyond obscene/indecent). Their concern is whether or not the signals of stations will interfere with each other. They care about ownership when a multi-station owner owns enough stations to reach the market cap (a market defined by signal coverage). But as far as the FCC cares every station in the market could be an ABC affiliate ... or TBN ... as long as the ownership and broadcast rules are followed.

    Your aim is off. Congress makes the law. And "for the time being" they have decided not to interfere with the private contracts between networks and their affiliates (beyond SHVERA's interference) nor allow satellite providers to interfere with those private contracts.

    Forbidden? Put up a good enough antenna and you can pick up any signal that reaches your home. It is the free choice of stations to broadcast HD or not.

    Perhaps you prefer a communist or socialist system where the government takes property (in this case, broadcast rights) away from the owners? And forces stations to air certain content? That is what you are suggesting.
     

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