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I need your help re: timers

Discussion in 'Other HD Receiver Support Forum (811, 921, 942)' started by Mark Lamutt, May 1, 2004.

  1. May 1, 2004 #1 of 40
    Mark Lamutt

    Mark Lamutt Your Neighborhood Liasion

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    I need some testing help from those of you (read: all of you) that are having timers fail to record.

    In this thread (and yes, I know you've been posting this in other threads, but I don't have enough time to sift through all of them again here), please post with as much excrutiating detail as possible what you were trying to record that failed.

    I'm on a very tight deadline here, and want to attempt to replicate as many of the timer failures on my 921 as possible (to see if any of them will still fail). All of my results need to be done by Monday morning.

    Please post timer situations that will fail for you - whether it be one timer, 2 timers, back to back timers, weekly, daily, one time, OTA, satellite, whatever. This thread isn't for split recordings, reboots, 0 second recordings, OTA channel failures, or anything else except for timers that fail to fire.

    For example, if you have 2 consecutive HBO timers set, and an OTA timer set to fire at the same time as the 2nd HBO timer, please post exact details of the three timers so that I can set them up exactly the same way.

    Thanks!
     
  2. May 1, 2004 #2 of 40
    Cheezmo

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    Here is one.

    Timer on Satellite HD channel from 9-11
    Timer on OTA HD channel from 10-11.
    Leave 921 on and viewing a Satellite HD channel (not the one that is recording).

    The message that comes up when it is time for the OTA timer to fire will say that the main tuner and PIP are both in use (what does PIP have to do with anything?). Don't select anything, let the dialog time out.

    The OTA timer will fail (it will put up a screen saying the program has been blacked out in your area). Audio for the Sat channel you were viewing will continue, but you will have a black screen.

    If you then try to delete the OTA timer that did not fire, it won't let you since it says it has already started the recording process (I wish!). I could go on with various other error messages, but I think you are just concerned with the timer not working here...
     
  3. May 1, 2004 #3 of 40
    Cheezmo

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    Here is another one.

    Timer on Satellite HD channel from 9-11.
    Timer on another Satellite HD channel from 10-11.
    Leave 921 on and viewing an OTA HD channel.

    The message the comes up with it is time for the 10 o'clock Satellite timer to fir will say that the "main and pip" are in use (again, what does PIP have to do with it?). Don't select anything, let the dialog time out.

    The Satellite timer will fail, you will get a black (or gray screen). Display will indicate you are on channel 77 UKN.

    Channel guide will indicate that the 10-11 show is recording (it will have a red dot) but it will not appear on the DVR screen.

    If you try to tune to the 10-11 channel from the channel guide it will take you to the gray screen (77 UKN). If you try to tune to yet a 3rd satellite channel, you will get stuck in a loop with a dialog saying "Your request can only be carried out in live mode. Stop recording and switch". I'm afraid to do that since I actually want the first recording to finish...
     
  4. May 1, 2004 #4 of 40
    Cheezmo

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    Timer on Sat HD channel from 10:30 -> 11
    Timer on another Sat HD channel from 10:30 -> 11
    Leave 921 on and tuned to yet a third Sat HD Channel.

    This actually works!!!!! Incredible!!!!!!
     
  5. May 1, 2004 #5 of 40
    Mark Lamutt

    Mark Lamutt Your Neighborhood Liasion

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    Thanks Steve. I'll let you know the results for your two cases above. Keep 'em coming! :)
     
  6. May 1, 2004 #6 of 40
    Mark Lamutt

    Mark Lamutt Your Neighborhood Liasion

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    Confirmed both Steve, and reported in detail.
     
  7. May 2, 2004 #7 of 40
    SimpleSimon

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    I don't know why, but my 4 Sunday morning weekly timers all failed to fire. This was after a GSOD Saturday night (only my 3rd one since L180 - but all were in the last week). The timers were all for different channels, and haven't been edited since right after L180 came in. Used Menu-7 to check the timers and noted that there were 'out of action order sequence'. That is, the timers should all be in time order, but they were not. A couple of Friday night timers followed the Sunday morning ones (which should've been the last timers in the list).

    Also, sometime yesterday, my available time remaining took a large jump to the good side for no apparent reason. Just happened to notice that. No deletes were done, but some recordings may have been in process. No, nothing got auto-deleted. I only mention this because by pure guess and speculation, I wonder if some kind of internal clean-up routine executed and maybe screwed things up. Just something to check, if in fact there is such a program in the box.

    Unrelated (I think, but who knows), I also did a non-timer recording today (hit the Rec button) with 'stop at end of show'. The timer did NOT stop. Stop button did not work. Stop via DVR menu did not work. Opening PIP and forcing a double channel change brought up the 'Can't do this ... switch to live' box. That DID work.

    Doing a power-off hard-boot now in hopes of stabilizing the box back to it's normally good performance.

    Update: The out-of-action-order timers mentioned above are STILL there. the rest of my Friday night timers are in the right place in the list. The out-of-order ones DID fire correctly last Friday.
     
  8. May 2, 2004 #8 of 40
    sgt940

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    Mark, I have duplicated this three times now over three weeks. Each week on Saturday I set a OTA timer to record the Nascar Race on 004-02 and each time it has failed. Here is the sequence for Today. Last night I created the timer using menu, timer, create. Channel 004-01 was working at that time. This morning I checked to make sure that I was still recieving 004-01 and I was not (almost a daily drop out on this channel). I deleted all Digital channels and re-scanned. Verfied that all were working. I had to leave so I left the unit on an tuned to local satelite channel SD 8403 the race in SD. When I got home I the record lite was on, I tried to tune to the HD OTA channel 004-02 and got the warning message 822 "Can not currently tune to an off-air channel as off-air tuner is being used for recording". As in other weeks I tried to cancel recording and it told me I had to stop it first, tried to gain control of tuner with check swith no avail. Tried to delete timer and said had to stop first and of course that is not possible. As I learned in the past the only way out is to edit the timer (it will let you do this) have it stop in a coule of minutes. Let it time out and than you can switch to the channel. When you do this there was nothing recorded during the time the record lite was on. What I do not know is if it would have recorder if I had left it a lone until the end.
     
  9. May 2, 2004 #9 of 40
    DonLandis

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    Mark- When my timers failed, I figured out what I did wrong and corrected that action. I really have nothing to report that I feel is a bug, although I do feel some of these menus and decisions are not at all user friendly and I also think Eldon needs to prioritize the timers to fire properly even if the 921 is tuned to the wrong channel. When a timer is set to fire, it should force the 921 to make that happen. I do think the software is heading in the right direction for making it better but the menu choices are still confusing.

    I can confirm that what Steve reported also fails for me. But, I don't try to allow conflicts to time out. I correct the problem and if it means I need to exceed the 921's design, I move to the 6000 or DirecTV receiver for the additional live viewing and leave the 921 to work on recording only. i.e. whenever I have 2 recordings working or coming up and wish to channel surf, I worry that it will cause conflicts so I channel surf with another receiver or do what the manual says is allowed and record 2 channels while only watching a 3rd "prerecorded" channel. Never a 3rd live channel. This is just how I avoid issues.


    "Timer on Sat HD channel from 10:30 -> 11
    Timer on another Sat HD channel from 10:30 -> 11
    Leave 921 on and tuned to yet a third Sat HD Channel.

    This actually works!!!!! Incredible!!!!!!
    "


    Well, this I can't do Steve. What other magic tricks do you do? Hey, just kidding. I think you just said you have 3 sat tuners in your 921 or did I misunderstand what you posted?
     
  10. Mark Lamutt

    Mark Lamutt Your Neighborhood Liasion

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    What Steve meant with the last one there was that the 921 forces the channel change and the 2nd timer fires. That's the correct action to take - it just needs to take that same action with the 2 other conditions Steve posted that fail - those other 2 conditions seem to indicate that the 921 is putting the priority on what's being viewed live over the timer.

    Sgt940 - what you posted is definitely a bug, but I don't think it's a timer related bug.
     
  11. Cheezmo

    Cheezmo Legend

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    I disagree that it is "putting priority on what's being viewed live". It does not put its priority on what's being viewed. It clearly attempts do the right thing, to switch to make the recording and gets itself into a messed up state in the process. If it just "failed" and continued viewing the live channel, one could argue they decided to implement it that way, but this is clearly a case of no one ever testing these pretty obvious scenarios.
     
  12. JOBY

    JOBY Cool Member

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    Last Night I had a sat timer recording TBS from 7:30 to 9:30PM. It was setup using the guide with padding. It stoped shortly before a weekly OTA timer that was setup with the time menu to recored KVUE ch 24 in Austin TX (no padding) started. I was watching a previously recorded discovery HD theater program. I noticed the red light went out, then came back on later. This morning I checked the recored list. The ota recording was complete, the TBS recording length was 34 min. I guess the OTA timer stoped the sat recording in progress.
     
  13. Mark Lamutt

    Mark Lamutt Your Neighborhood Liasion

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    JOBY, what were the start and stop time settings for your OTA timer?
     
  14. JOBY

    JOBY Cool Member

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    Mar 27, 2004
    8:00 PM to 9:00 pm no padding
     
  15. Mark Lamutt

    Mark Lamutt Your Neighborhood Liasion

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    One more question Joby - do you recall what channel your 921 was tuned to before you entered the DVR menu to start watching the DiscHD event? I don't know if it matters or not, but am just trying to get the complete picture.
     
  16. JOBY

    JOBY Cool Member

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    Sorry Im not sure. I think it was a SD channel.
     
  17. Mark Lamutt

    Mark Lamutt Your Neighborhood Liasion

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    Hmm...I went through 4 test cases last night with a sat timer and an OTA timer firing while watching a DVR event, and in all cases, both timers fired correctly and completed recording.
     
  18. DonLandis

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    Mark-
    I think they really need to dump the whole concept of "padding" Padding can cause conditions that generate times where tuner and/or circuitry channels are exceeded in adjacent timers. I believe that the popular opinion is to think of the padding as being exempt from system limitations, which it is not. So, eliminating all padding options is a good step toward reducing conditions of user failure. It just simplifies the timer setup for no conflicts.
    The second condition should be that the timer should be prioritized unless manually shut down. e.g. Say you are watching a sat channel and a background timer is about to fire on another channel. While this happens, you were in the process of recording another sat channel. This makes for 3 channels which is beyond the limits of the system. When the little warning clock comes up, it would be warning you that you are about to be switched to viewing the new timer channel unless you shut down the timer. If you do nothing, the timer would take over and when it fires you would not be permitted to continue to watch but would be switched allowing the timer to fire. At this time your system has reached maximum. Two sat tuners recording. Beyond watching one of those two recordings live, your only other option would be to watch another prerecorded program on the 921 hard drive.

    Funny thing- When the 921 is in standby mode (power button off) the timer is prioritized over what other channel you had left the 921 set to. It only seems to fail when you are powered on. FWIW- my old SVHS VCR's timer worked with priority set to timer. When the timer was about to start recording, if you were tuned to a different channel, the VCR would switch your live viewing to what the timer wanted. i.e. Timer was prioritized, not live viewing.

    In summary, change two things, eliminate padding settings altogether (they are superfulous and redundant) And, two, prioritize the timer over live channel settings.
     
  19. JOBY

    JOBY Cool Member

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    Mar 27, 2004
    One thing that might be different is that in the setup, I turned off the warning icon that comes on before a timer fires because my wife was irritated by it. Your's may be on.

    I will try to replicate the problem, If it does happen again, I will turn the timer warning back on and re-test.
     
  20. Mark Lamutt

    Mark Lamutt Your Neighborhood Liasion

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    My "Mr. Blinkey" is turned off as well.
     

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