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Improper Grounding of Satellite Dish

19K views 84 replies 26 participants last post by  houskamp 
#1 ·
Directv came to my home two weeks ago to install a Slimline 5 LNB satellite Dish. The technician, who was a sub-contractor from Directv called Mass Tech or Advanced Technologies, located here in South Florida, who are the only ones located in my area, came to my home to perform the install of the dish. To make a long story short, the technician ran the ground wire to a metal strip that is used to hold up my Hurricane Shutters and now I am learning that it was an improper ground technique since this metal strip does not touch the ground; it is attached to the side of my home.
My old Directv Dish used to be grounded to a metal water faucet. He put the new dish further away and choose not to run the ground wire to it. Now I find out that at 24 feet or so would've been too far to run the wire anyways. At the time I had a DISH dish located where the old Directv dish was and he didn't want to take it down like I asked him and he never informed me about the grounding procedures. I told him he can try to use the hurricane metal strip to ground it and he listened to me which apparently he should never have done. He was also in a rush and wanted to get to his next appointment.
Directv visited me yesterday, now 2 weeks later to perform an inspection of the installation who advised me of the improper grounding technique that was used. They will schedule someone to come to my home to perform a proper installation!! I hear that an improper ground can cause the receivers to fry as well as my tv's and can cause possible fires.
Can anyone out there relate to this?
Has anyone ever experienced an issue caused from an imporper ground?
It is pathetic that a professional installer would do this but luckily it was noticed when it was.
I welcome all comments about this thread and thank you for your time.
 
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#28 ·
harsh said:
The NEC applies pretty much everywhere in the US. Some jurisdictions have more stringent requirements.That's what MDU installations are for. Just because someone needs or wants something desperately doesn't mean they are somehow entitled to it to the exclusion of codes and regulations. The owners of the apartments need to reconcile how the customer is going to get access to a bonding point as part of the binding OTARD requirements.The issue isn't who gets turned off. The issue is who shouldn't have been installed in the first place.
Harsh,

You are correct and I agree with everything you have said. Still, in satellite land, IF an installer refuses to complete an installation for any reason another installer will be sent. Grounding and dish location and cable route and phone connections are all just little blips on the screen. The customer wants that picture and DTV (and DISH) are in the business of selling it. If something goes wrong there are enough layers of subcontractors to insulate the stock holders.

Joe
 
#29 ·
Mertzen said:
Did this one today. Now I am sure someone will have some remark on it. But I know for a fact it is better then 95% of most installs out there. :rolleyes:
Darn nice work. We're I to give any criticism, it would be that the drip loops for the wall penetrations on the left could have been a little lower, and I'd have put a terminating cap (WITH THE STINGER REMOVED!) on the extra port on the ground block, since it is exposed to the weather. But that is really just nitpicking; it is indeed better than at least 95% of the work we see. I would hire you tomorrow.
 
#30 ·
Mertzen said:
That is the #17 wire. Most important one of them all. It actually forms the bond between ODU and groundblock. Without it there is no ground. Unless you run #10 straight from the dish.
Well, there is the ground provided by the shield of the coax cable. But that ground must be electrically isolated at the LNB/multiswitch. The steel messenger cable is used to drain static build up on the dish caused by moving air aka wind. Getting rid of the static protects the electronics in the dish, and prevent shocks to someone touching the dish (reaction could cause a fall). There is also a theory that draining the static prevents the dish/antenna from attracting lightning, but it a theory subject to much argument. Problem is you just can't prove it because lightning just can't be used in controlled experiments, too darn wild.
 
#33 ·
Mertzen said:
Did this one today. Now I am sure someone will have some remark on it. But I know for a fact it is better then 95% of most installs out there. :rolleyes:
The two things that caught my eye;

Your service loop needs to be lowered to become a drip loop.
terminating the grounding block

Weather boots are a bit overrated. If your block/switch is going to be in the weather, i think its more important for it to be in a spot where it will dry out quickly.
 
#34 ·
IIP said:
Darn nice work. We're I to give any criticism, it would be that the drip loops for the wall penetrations on the left could have been a little lower, and I'd have put a terminating cap (WITH THE STINGER REMOVED!) on the extra port on the ground block, since it is exposed to the weather. But that is really just nitpicking; it is indeed better than at least 95% of the work we see. I would hire you tomorrow.
LOL. Did that after I took the pic.
 
#38 ·
Tiger62 said:
First of all... If you didn't know anything about grounding, you shouldn't have given him any advice about grounding! :)

I think very few Directv installers know ANYTHING about proper grounding methods... ie. When I installed my system, I drove an 8-foot ground rod into the ground right below my dish, which I mounted on the chimney, about 15 feet above ground. I ran a #8 copper wire from the dish mounting foot to the grounding rod. I also ran a #8 copper wire from the coax ground block (where the coax enters the attic) to that same ground rod. The NEC regulations specify that my ground rod must be "bonded" to my electrical service ground, 46 feet away, with #6 copper wire. I didn't have any #6 copper wire "lying around" (@ $0.80 per foot), so I decided that I'd let Directv take care of that little matter :)

Well, when the Directv installers came, all they had to do was plunk down the one receiver, connect the cables, run that wire and activate the system. (I had mounted the dish, aimed it, and run all of the cables.) They had absolutely no knowledge of how to bond the two grounds and the largest wire they had on the truck was #12! I told them to just forget it and I'd take care of it. The next day, I bought $35 worth of #6 copper and bonded it properly. My peace of mind was worth it!
Do you think this is going to help you with a lightning strike.
 
#42 ·
PANCHITO said:
Do you think this is going to help you with a lightning strike.
Lightning strike? In a lightning strike the fire department, emergency medical services, and your insurance company are your friends.

The grounding is designed to prevent the sat wiring from getting energized by the building AC power to SAVE LIFE. Lightning hits and all bets are off.

Example of how NEC relates to lightning strike:

After lightning strikes your home, the firemen entering your burnt out, partially collapsed house searching for your charred and lifeless body don't want to be electrocuted while stepping on your stupid TV cable.
 
#43 ·
Tiger62 said:
First of all... If you didn't know anything about grounding, you shouldn't have given him any advice about grounding! :)

I think very few Directv installers know ANYTHING about proper grounding methods... ie. When I installed my system, I drove an 8-foot ground rod into the ground right below my dish, which I mounted on the chimney, about 15 feet above ground. I ran a #8 copper wire from the dish mounting foot to the grounding rod. I also ran a #8 copper wire from the coax ground block (where the coax enters the attic) to that same ground rod. The NEC regulations specify that my ground rod must be "bonded" to my electrical service ground, 46 feet away, with #6 copper wire. I didn't have any #6 copper wire "lying around" (@ $0.80 per foot), so I decided that I'd let Directv take care of that little matter :)

Well, when the Directv installers came, all they had to do was plunk down the one receiver, connect the cables, run that wire and activate the system. (I had mounted the dish, aimed it, and run all of the cables.) They had absolutely no knowledge of how to bond the two grounds and the largest wire they had on the truck was #12! I told them to just forget it and I'd take care of it. The next day, I bought $35 worth of #6 copper and bonded it properly. My peace of mind was worth it!
Well first off I appreciate the discussion that I have started. It really goes to show what is involved with putting up a satellite dish and how important it is to doing it properly. It also goes to show how incompetent some of the installers are out there.
Secondly, all I I thouhgt I knew about grounding was that the grounding wire had to touch a piece of metal; I had no idea that metal had to touch the ground but that is not my job; it is the installers and he should never have listened to me if he knew any better. Just because I say so doesn't make it so; he needs to do his job both legally and safely which he failed to do so. I was just guessing but he should have known and knew not to listen to me; it was his fault and his fault alone.
They are coming back to my home on Monday to fix their mistake. Hopefully it will be done correctly this time because I will not allow them to screw this one up. I will also have the QAC company come back here to verify that the install was done correctly this time or they will definitely here from me again. I let no one take advantage of me;....no one.
 
#44 ·
Just a thought on my histroy with grounding equipment. I service truck scales and they are very suseptible to lightning strikes causing damage to the load cells, which have a wafer thin wheatstone resistance bridge in them, and the electronic weight indicators. In 15 years I have never seen a truck scale take a direct hit. The surge from a lightning strike hitting a tree or telephone pole will travel through the ground and back through a ground rod into the truck scale and damaging componants of the truck scale. I have found that the best ground you have is at your source voltage from you power company. I would suggest that you ground to your service ground if possible. If not, put you ground rod away from anything that could attract surges from lightning strikes.
 
#46 ·
somguy said:
Well first off I appreciate the discussion that I have started. It really goes to show what is involved with putting up a satellite dish and how important it is to doing it properly. It also goes to show how incompetent some of the installers are out there.
Secondly, all I I thouhgt I knew about grounding was that the grounding wire had to touch a piece of metal; I had no idea that metal had to touch the ground but that is not my job; it is the installers and he should never have listened to me if he knew any better. Just because I say so doesn't make it so; he needs to do his job both legally and safely which he failed to do so. I was just guessing but he should have known and knew not to listen to me; it was his fault and his fault alone.
They are coming back to my home on Monday to fix their mistake. Hopefully it will be done correctly this time because I will not allow them to screw this one up. I will also have the QAC company come back here to verify that the install was done correctly this time or they will definitely here from me again. I let no one take advantage of me;....no one.
Not really sure what to say here other than wow, just wow.

Yes the installer messed up by not properly grounding you system.

HOWEVER, it was done per your instructions. You told (suggested to) him where to ground.

Had he blown you off and put you into the "know-it-all" customer category, then we would have still have an installer bashing thread, only it would be titled "Stupid Installer Didn't Listen to Me" instead.

He should have just walked away and saved himself the headache.

I need to stop now before I get too personal.

:mad:
 
#47 ·
Ahh the joys of codes.. This is why it takes 3 guys and a stack of permits to install a furnass.. elect, gas, ductwork, flue...
I'll just go with the "made an honest attempt to ground it"..
when it comes down to it with nearby lightning strikes, how much is enough?
so 12ga gets you safe at 1 mile away, 10 3/4 mile,....... basicaly even 1ga won't protect against one thats close enough..
 
#48 ·
BNUMM said:
Weather boots and compression fittings are overrated. If the fitting has an o-ring in the threaded area it will be better protected than any other fitting ( yes even if the crimp is only a hex crimp ) this comes from experience.
I will second that! When I installed my last system 10 years ago, I used the crimp style connecters and I installed an o'ring in each connecter with no weather boots. The ground block was wide open to the elements with not one issue in 10 years.
 
#49 ·
I had issues with an install also, but in my case it was a local private DTV guy. Went through this about 6 months ago.

A long time ago I did my own old 2 LNB dish mounting on the side of my house where I could ground it to my house service ground rod properly. I wanted it upgrade to HD so I had my local do a consult on placing a Slimline. He said he could not get LOS at the position of my old dish and moved the Slimline to the backyard on a post. Absolutely no grounding at all. Not even a grounding block. He told me that the post in the ground was the gound.

Well I knew this was not acceptable and started doing some research. I joined this terrific site and learned a lot!

So I ended up doing my own install. I dug up the post and placed it on the side of my house where I had my old dish. The LOS was fine, I just manage to get good signal on that side. Re-ran all the wires. The wires penetrate the house under the eve, so there is no water problem there. Used a weather proof box for the grounding block. Bought a medium quality compression tool form Lowe's.

Did #6 bare copper from the dish to the service grounding rod. Only 20 feet away.

Did #12 bare copper from the gounding block to the service grounding rod where the telephone gorund is.

So everything is grounded to code and I feel good about it. I am lucky because I can have my dish close to my service grounding rod. I know others are not so lucky. I know a close lighting strike doesn't protect everything.

I learned so much from the guys on this site and I know there are a lot of opinions on the extent of grounding. But I am in the camp of grounding properly even if you have ot drive another grounding rod and bond it ti the service grounding rod.

Thanks to everyone on this site. I have added my pictures to help others in the future.

If you can put your dish within 20 feet of your service grounding rod I believe I have demonstrated an acceptable way to do things.
 

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#50 ·
gmtussb said:
I had issues with an install also, but in my case it was a local private DTV guy. Went through this about 6 months ago.

A long time ago I did my own old 2 LNB dish mounting on the side of my house where I could ground it to my house service ground rod properly. I wanted it upgrade to HD so I had my local do a consult on placing a Slimline. He said he could not get LOS at the position of my old dish and moved the Slimline to the backyard on a post. Absolutely no grounding at all. Not even a grounding block. He told me that the post in the ground was the gound.

Well I knew this was not acceptable and started doing some research. I joined this terrific site and learned a lot!

So I ended up doing my own install. I dug up the post and placed it on the side of my house where I had my old dish. The LOS was fine, I just manage to get good signal on that side. Re-ran all the wires. The wires penetrate the house under the eve, so there is no water problem there. Used a weather proof box for the grounding block. Bought a medium quality compression tool form Lowe's.

Did #6 bare copper from the dish to the service grounding rod. Only 20 feet away.

Did #12 bare copper from the gounding block to the service grounding rod where the telephone gorund is.

So everything is grounded to code and I feel good about it. I am lucky because I can have my dish close to my service grounding rod. I know others are not so lucky. I know a close lighting strike doesn't protect everything.

I learned so much from the guys on this site and I know there are a lot of opinions on the extent of grounding. But I am in the camp of grounding properly even if you have ot drive another grounding rod and bond it ti the service grounding rod.

Thanks to everyone on this site. I have added my pictures to help others in the future.

If you can put your dish within 20 feet of your service grounding rod I believe I have demonstrated an acceptable way to do things.
Not the correct Fittings, FAILS...
 
#51 ·
gmtussb said:
Thanks to everyone on this site. I have added my pictures to help others in the future.

If you can put your dish within 20 feet of your service grounding rod I believe I have demonstrated an acceptable way to do things.
You can't use any of the dish bolts to ground. Any ground needs its own dedicated bolt.

Not 100 percent about the bends at the ground block. Might be to tight a radius I'd put service loops there but since the ODU is close by I guess it is not the biggest problem since the lines can be replaced.

Those fittings are D* approved. Not sure why ^^^ thinks they are not.
 
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