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Instructions for Adding the 61.5 - REVISED 05/04

Discussion in 'General DISH™ Discussion' started by larrystotler, May 1, 2005.

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  1. May 1, 2005 #1 of 226
    larrystotler

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    E* Switch configuration help:

    Please, read this and LOOK for your switch information, and then read over the suggestions provided. This is pretty everything that you need to know.

    Right now, the VOOM Channels are ONLY available on the 61.5. However, there are rumors(which make sense) that E* will add Voom to the 148. This has NOT been confirmed, but it may be worth waiting to see what is announced instead of wasting money for this IF you already have the 148. Those on the West Coast may have problems getting the 61.5 and Alaska and Hawaii are SOL(Sorry Guys).

    Also note that right now, you cannot see Rainbow 1's transponders on the E* receiver. They are using Trans 1, 3, 5, 7. These will NOT show up on your signal strength screen until E* releases a software update(although it DOES show on the 921 according to Mark Lamutt). The receiver will be able to use them, however.

    The first thing you need to do is find out what equipment you have. This can be easy, but it can also require a little work on your part depending on what you already have. The first part of this is for LEGACY systems. The second will be for Dish Pro(DP). Please keep in mind that you CANNOT mix legacy and DP DBS LNBs and switches. It is either one or the other.

    PLEASE EVERYONE NOTE THAT a switch that starts with SW is a LEGACY switch and that a switch that starts with DP is a DISH PRO switch. It is VERY important that you keep this in mind when you post because you will create confusion for those who are newbies....

    Almost ALL E* installs are connected to the 110 and 119 with a Dish500. Yours may use 2 dishes to do this. Generally, if you have a Dish500 and another dish, it is for the 61.5 or the 148. Superdishes will be discussed in the Dishpro section.

    IF you need the 61.5(or the 148), you will need an 18Inch Dish. A D500 CAN be used, but it is recommended that you DO NOT use a Twin LNB unless you don't have access to another LNB. Due to popular demand, a new section about using this equipment has been added below.

    A D* or V* dish CAN be used with ANY legacy setup. All the D* and V* LNBs are INTERCHANGABLE (EXCEPT the special SAT C D* LNB). A Dish PRO install will need either an E* dish or a D* dish that had the D-shaped arm. A rectangular arm dish CANNOT be used with a DP LNB without modifications(and it's not worth doing. You CAN add the E* I-bracket, but it will make the arm too long and mess with the signal. However, a measurement is being worked on for thos who are adventurous. WIll post when available.).

    ANY E* Sub that has Local Channels available on the 61.5 Can get a free install done. However, YOU MUST ASK for the LOCALS ADDITIONAL DISH, and NOT an HD Upgrade for it to be free. Also, when having it installed for locals, E* is REQUIRED by the FCC to hook ALL activated receivers to the 61.5(or 148 if that is used in your area).

    Keep in mind that ONLY an HD receiver can SEE HD channels. Therefore, unless you plan to add an HD receiver soon, you may only have to hook the 61.5 up to 1 receiver and not all of your receivers.

    IF you are UNSURE, PLEASE call a professional. A local Retailer or E* will be more than willing to help you for a reasonable price if necessary.

    IF you have a VOOM dish already pointed at the 61.5 and are using legacy E* equipment, you do NOT have to repoint it. If you are using DP equipment, you will need a new D-Arm Dish.

    #1 - Find out what you have. The following is a list of available legacy E* switches and what they are:

    500 Twin - Picks up the 110 & 119 and can feed 2 receivers MAX,
    500 Quad - Picks up the 110 & 119 and can feed 4 receivers.
    SW21 - Used to combine LNBs and/or one LNB and one Switch. Very useful.
    SW42 - Basically 2 SW21s in 1 box. Uses the same switching as the 500 Twin.
    SW44 - Used for 2 sat locations. Requires a Power Inserter. Requires 2 lines from each LNB. Feeds up to 4 receivers.
    SW64 - Used for 3 sat locations. Requires a Power Inserter. Requires 2 lines from each LNB. Feeds up to 4 receivers.
    SWAJ - Similar to the SW21, but required power from the Accessory Jack used on some receivers. Basically had to be put at the receiver and had to have 1 wire from each dish ran to it. Unsupported and unusable.
    Single LNB - DBS LNB that only has 1 output. Can ONLY be connected to 1 receiver.
    Dual LNB - DBS LNB that had 2 outputs. Can be connected to 2 receivers or to a switch to go to 4 or more receivers.
    D* 2x4 or 3x4 MultiSwitch - Simple multiswicth that allows a Dual LNB to be connected to up to 4 receivers. Also available in a 2x8 and 3x8 for up to 8 receivers. CAN be used with E*, but the setups get horribly complicated and is NOT recommended for anyone other than an Expert.

    SW21 - 3Sat - This is seen when you have either a 500 Twin or Quad OR an SW44 connected to a 3rd location with an SW21.
    SW21 - 4Sat - This is seen when you have an SW64 connected to a 4th location with an SW21. This is also how a legacy receiver will "see" a DP+44 Switch.


    IF you have a 500 Twin or Quad- You will need an 18" dish and a Single or Dual LNB to get the 61.5 as well as an SW21(or 2 for 2 receivers). Connect the line from the 500 Twin to the SW21 and connect the other LNB to the SW21. DO A CHECK SWITCH.

    If you have an SW44 - You can connect the SW44 and the another LNB with an SW21. DO NOT USE PORT 1 due to the power inserter. It will DESTROY the SW21! OR you can replace the SW44 with an SW64 and add the new dish and DUAL LNB to the SW64. DO A CHECK SWITCH.

    If you have an SW64 and do not get the 61.5 - You can connect the SW64 and the another LNB with an SW21. DO NOT USE PORT 1 due to the power inserter. It will DESTROY the SW21! DO A CHECK SWITCH.

    PLEASE NOTE: You CANNOT cascade 2 SW21s. You MUST have another switch cascaded to the SW21. Microyal, www.microyal.com offers E* compatible switches. They offer the SW21X, which is basically 1/2 of an SW42, and CAN be cascaded with an SW21. You CANNOT casecade an SW21X with a 500Twin or Quad.

    PLEASE NOTE: Cascading Multiple SW64 switches together is beyond the scope of this and should ONLY be done by a professional to protect the equipment.

    Dish Pro:

    ALL DP LNBs or Switches have a DP logo or a DPPlus Logo on them, and it is usually very visible.

    DP Single or Dual - DP LNB for 1 sat location.
    DP Twin - Picks up the 110 & 119 - Can feed 2 receivers directly OR be connected to another switch. When connected to a DP34 or DP+44, you need BOTH lines connected to these switches.
    DP Quad - Picks up the 110 & 119 - Can feed 2 receivers directly OR be connected to another switch. When connected to a DP34 or DP+44, you need at LEAST 2 lines connected to these switches. The other 2 can be connected directly to a receiver, but you won't get the extra sat locations from the DP34 or DP+44.
    DP21 - Similar to the SW21. Connects 1 single or dual DP LNB to another LNB or switch. CANNOT connect 2 DP switches together.
    DP34 - Allows up to 3 Sats to be connected to up to 4 receivers. Can be connected to 2 more DP34s for up to 12 receivers/tuners. REQUIRES 1 Wire from each location.
    DP+Twin - Picks up the 110 & 119, Can feed up to 4 tuners. Has a port to add a 3rd location built into it. CAN be used with a DP+ Seperator and a Dual Tuner receiver. Can be connected to a DP34 or a DP+44, but will ONLY transmit the 110 & 119 when connected this way.
    DP+44 - Allows up to 4 Sats to be connected to 4 receivers or up to 8 tuners with the DP+ Seperators. Requires POWER INSERTION.
    DP+ Seperator - Allows a DP+ Dual Tuner receiver(322/522/625/721/921/942) to connect to a DP+44 or DP+ Twin(excluding the 721 right now) with only 1 wire.
    SuperDish 105 or 121 - Used with the FSS sats at those locations. The SuperDish comes with a DP34. It can be connected to a DP+44 as well. SuperDishes DO NOT pick up the 61.5. You NEED a second dish.

    You CANNOT run a DP21 into a DP34, DP+44, or DP+Twin. It DOES Not work that way. It only works BETWEEN These switches and the receiver(unsure about the DP+Twin, but don't see why it won't work). Also, using a DP21 with a DP+ switch removes the ability to use the DP+ Seperator, so PLEASE keep this in mind.

    You CANNOT use a DP21 with a DP+44 and the DP+ Seperator. When you use the DP21s, you MUST have 1 line to each tuner. The DP21 is NOT DP+. It only band stacks. It does NOT band translate/share.

    If you have a DP Twin or Quad- You will need an 18" dish and a Single or Dual DP LNB to get the 61.5 as well as an DP21(or 2 for 2 receivers). Connect the line from the DP Twin or Quad to the DP21 and connect the other DP LNB to the DP21. DO A CHECK SWITCH.

    If you have a DP34 - You can connect the DP34 and the another DP LNB with a DP21. OR you can replace the DP34 with a DP+44 and add the new dish and DP LNB to the DP+44. DO A CHECK SWITCH.

    If you have an DP+44 and do not get the 61.5 - You can connect the DP+44 and the other DP LNB with an DP21. DO NOT USE PORT 1 due to the power inserter. It will DESTROY the DP21! DO A CHECK SWITCH.

    Please keep in mind that legacy switches like the SW44 and SW64 HAVE to have 2 lines from each LNB/Location to work properly, whereas an SW21 only needs 1.

    Also keep in mind that a DP switch, like the DP21, DP+Twin, DP34, or DP+44 REQUIRE 1 wire from each LNB/Location.

    When cascading 1 DP34 into another DP34, if you want the same sats on all Tuners, you MUST connect each output from the first DP34 into each input on the 2nd DP34(they do NOT have to be in the same order). Same goes for the DP+44. You can also cascade a DP+44 into a DP34, but you will lose 1 sat in this config. Also keep in mind that when cascading DP34s that at least 1 receiver on the first switch MUST be plugged in to power the switch. With the DP+44s, you MUST have the power inserters plugged in for each switch for them to see the signals.

    Revision:

    Using a DPTwin on a D500 to get the 61.5:

    1. Set the skew of the D500 at 90 degress so that the arm is not tilted.
    2. Connect the Twin DIRECTLY to a receiver.
    3. Cover the 110 side of the LNB with a peice of tin foil or thick cloth.
    4. Set the elavation. Tune the dish.
    5. Once you have the signal locked, connect the dish to your equipment. Remove the cover.
    6. Run the check switch. It SHOULD show 4 locations with 1 as an X for signal and NC for sat(assuming you are connecting to a DP34. A DP21 should only "see" the 119 side to begin with).

    When using the DPTwin with a DP21, you may have problems when using a DPTwin on the 110/119 since the DP21 only "sees" 1 switch. You may have to re-run the switch check a few times. The DP34 should not have any problems.

    I would NOT try using a 500 Twin since the SW21 may not see the second 500Twin. If need be I will try it in the next few days and see what happens.


    Good Luck!

    This post is mirrored at SatelliteGuys.US as well as the EchoStar Knowledge base at http://ekb.dbstalk.com/Adding 61-5 dish.htm
     
  2. May 1, 2005 #2 of 226
    Mark Lamutt

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    Thanks for this, Larry!
     
  3. May 1, 2005 #3 of 226
    TNGTony

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    Larry, can I copy this post to the EKB?

    See ya
    Tony
     
  4. May 1, 2005 #4 of 226
    SimpleSimon

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    Good job Larry!
     
  5. May 1, 2005 #5 of 226
    JohnGfun

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    Thanks Larry! I do have one question....Do I add the DP21 Before Or After The DP34?
     
  6. May 1, 2005 #6 of 226
    JohnGfun

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    One more question. Is it possible to use a Dish 500 LNB Because thats what I've got laying around.
     
  7. May 1, 2005 #7 of 226
    Mark Lamutt

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    John - after the DP34, and if you're talking about a Twin, you can give it a shot, but it's a hit or miss type deal, especially if it's DP.
     
  8. May 1, 2005 #8 of 226
    larrystotler

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    Yup.
     
  9. May 1, 2005 #9 of 226
    larrystotler

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    You MUST add the DP34 into the DP21. It will NOT work the other way.
     
  10. May 1, 2005 #10 of 226
    JohnGfun

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    So the 61.5 will only run to one receiver that way?
     
  11. May 1, 2005 #11 of 226
    JohnGfun

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    Its a quad?
     
  12. May 1, 2005 #12 of 226
    MikeW

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    You can. It's just a pain to point. Best to hook the 500 directly to the receiver, point and acquire 61.5 then attach it to your switch and do a check switch.

    Make sure also that you are using either completely legacy dishes/switches or DishPRO dishes/switches.

    I do have a 500 pointed at 61.5 and it gives me no grief.
     
  13. May 1, 2005 #13 of 226
    larrystotler

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    Correct. You can SPLIT a DP Single/Dual LNB, and use multiple DP21s to connect to more than 1 receiver in this fashion. However, it would make more sense to get a DP+44 in this case. Basically, if all you need from the 61.5 is the V* channels, and you ONLY have 1 HD receiver, then that is all that you need.
     
  14. May 1, 2005 #14 of 226
    chastulsa

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    I have 3 questions.


    1. How far can the dishes be from each other? (other side of house?)

    2. I have my dish 500 on the West side of my house pointing south. My niehbor has a big tree on the east side of me which blocks nearly al the east (unless I go on a 30ft pole) But on the east side of my house I have about a 15ft square window. How big of a window do I need if its the right eval? I cant move my Dish 500 becuase On the east side of the house the same tree blocks south.

    3. I live in Tulsa and can get the MUST CARRY dish for free. I dont have exposure to 148 bc other neihbors tree. How much should I buy the guy to try to repoint that dish to 61.5?
     
  15. May 1, 2005 #15 of 226
    larrystotler

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    3 answers:

    Maximum cable legnth from the receivers to the dish is 125ft for legacy and 200ft for DP. You CAN go farther, but at your own risk.

    That MAY work. Unfortunately, the only way to find out is to try.

    You can schedule the must carry install. And you MAY be able to at least get the installers opinion. However, keep in mind that E* will probably mirror the V* channels on the 148 soon, and you may be wasting your time and money. Is it really THAT important that you get these channels immediately, or would it make more sense to wait and see what happens.
     
  16. May 1, 2005 #16 of 226
    ibglowin

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    Hey great post and info Larry,

    I just added the 10 Voom channels with no problems. Here is my question. I have 2 921's that are being fed from a legacy quad. I currently have both of the inputs from my 61.5 lnb feeding one of the 921's in the den. What switch would I need to get to add 61.5 to the other 921? I need 2 more 61.5 feeds in another words for the other 921.

    Looks like I need an SW64 but would this work before I spend the extra $$$$?
     
  17. May 1, 2005 #17 of 226
    ww2154

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    I have a superdish with a 34dp switch. I subscribe to dish network 120 plus hd packand have the 811 receiver. I also have a direct tv dish with a lnb model dlnb2 right next to my dish network superdish that I used back when I had direct tv 2 years ago. Can I use the direct tv dish to pick up the voom channels on dish network and if I can how do I do that. I know I have to pay dish 5 more dollars a month for these channels .
     
  18. May 1, 2005 #18 of 226
    jsanders

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    I've got my locals on 148, which I don't watch, but I do need the guide data. I'm guessing the data comes from 148 too.

    Anyway, it appears I need 61.5, 110, 119, and 148.

    I read that link about cascading sw21s with the sw21x here:
    http://www.microyal.com/dishnet-tech-main.jpg

    However, in the end, it only shows up as linking three satellites together.
    Can I use the a sw21 cascaded with a sw21x to link a Dish500 twin, and two Dish 300 twins to get 61.5, 110, 119, and 148? Or do I have to go the sw44 with a sw21?

    I'm only running two lines down for a 921. No other receivers.
     
  19. May 1, 2005 #19 of 226
    yaesumofo

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    Ok so here is the deal.
    I now have a 921 and a 811.
    On the roof here is a dish 500 antenna pointed at 110 and 119.
    A second dish pointed at 148.
    These are feeding a SW64.
    So I tried to re-aim tthe 148 dish. No good the dish 500 is in the way of a good point at 61.5.
    So option one seem to be to have a dish guy come out and move the 148 dish and re-aim it for 61.5. cost $129. I loose 148.
    Or have the guy add a dish for 61.5 and a dishpro+ 44. Cost $300+.
    Is this really worth all the trouble?
    Should I just be patient and wait for the HD content to appear on 148?
    Can any of you think of an easy way to do all of this?
    Anybody got a cheap dishpro+44 they don't need?
    Yaesumofo
     
  20. May 1, 2005 #20 of 226
    larrystotler

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    You can do that. OR, you can run the 61.5 LNB into a D* style 4way multiswitch and use 2 more SW21s. OR upgrade to DP and get a DP34.
     
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