Interactive Beam Footprint Library

Discussion in 'DIRECTV Tips and Resources' started by Gary Toma, Jun 17, 2011.

  1. HoTat2

    HoTat2 Hall Of Fame

    7,773
    231
    Nov 16, 2005
    Los...
    No, if you look carefully in the first link I posted earlier regarding the transfer of control of the Atlanta earth station E930299 and download the "Exhibit A" document under the attachment menu. It appears that DIRECTV has filed for transfer of all it's Ku band satellite licenses at 101, 110, and 119 and their associated earth stations to AT&T.

    S2455 - D7S
    S2430 - D4S
    S2673 - D5
    S2669 - D9S (Ku-band payload)
    S2632- D8 (Ku-band payload)

    And all the above have the following associated Ku earth station licenses filed for transfer as well.

    E020172 E020241 E020242 E030105 E030117 E050112 E050113 E050121 E050122 E050255 E060014 E060236 E060441 E930229 (PAS Alt. site) E930304 E930485 E950349

    But I agree, I don't understand why these T/C applications before the merger is even approved by government regulators. :confused:
     
  2. slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

    10,102
    1,305
    Feb 14, 2013
    Iowa
    So going back to my post a couple months ago where I detailed the various uplink/downlink facilities Directv uses, I figure the outage earlier today could provide a few more clues as to how the process of local delivery works. Based on the location of the outage, one would assume the fiber cut involved either the NEDF or NEUF. The fiber cut must have been within a mile or two of the facility, otherwise the telco would have been able to route around the damage and get them back up much more quickly.

    The outage apparently affected HD only, not SD, so those must be uplinked from a different facility, probably ECUF or PAS ATLANTA? There were reports though that some areas of South Carolina and New Jersey still had their locals. Presumably they use the same broadcast center, but maybe their locals come in on a different fiber than the one that was cut? Can't think of any other reason why they'd be OK when most other locations were down.

    Too bad that Ka on 101 doesn't actually provide any useful backhaul capacity for this sort of thing, it would have come in handy :)
     
  3. Dec 7, 2014 #103 of 194
    slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

    10,102
    1,305
    Feb 14, 2013
    Iowa
    I later saw an article that it was a fiber cut to the NEUF that caused the outage. The list of affected DMAs left a lot of DMAs in the east unaffected, so I would guess that some use NEUF and some use NEDF. I don't understand the naming scheme, as I can't imagine what the North East Downlink Facility or any of the other three regional "downlink facilities" could actually downlink. My guess would be that each backs up the other but normally they split the load.

    The 'backup' capability between the two is probably intended for issues with uplinking (i.e. equipment failure or localized super heavy rain bad enough to rain fade a very large dish plus amplifier) rather than fiber cuts, but if so they might want to revisit that :)
     
  4. slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

    10,102
    1,305
    Feb 14, 2013
    Iowa
    Is there any way to get the info on the Hawaii beam for D10/D11/D12? It isn't in the beam footprints, and the data doesn't seem to be included in the LOAs either. I'm trying to figure out if there's much difference in the signal power Hawaii gets for those satellites versus CONUS. D14/D15 give Hawaii slightly better signal power versus most of the US, but D8/D9S provide significantly less.

    I'm curious what the big dish is actually needed for. Is it just Ku from 101 that needs the extra boost, or do the current set of HD satellites also provide a lower signal to Hawaii? I figure the added free space loss due to distance at barely more than 1 db, so if Hawaii received the same or slightly better signal power than the bulk of CONUS from all satellites as it will with D14/D15, it would no longer require the larger dish.
     
  5. Gary Toma

    Gary Toma UNIX

    2,352
    151
    Mar 22, 2006
    A comment from spear61, our 'Beam Master':

    D12 Hawaii beam is in your files. Directv only provided some example spot beams in the filings for D10 and D11 so no one other than Directv and their manufacturer has that information. Their rational at the time was that it was too big a work burden to provide all the individual spot beams. And, the spots would all meet the technical parameters of the principle permitted coverage (Conus) . All of the newer satellites include the complete set of beams.

    Note: the D12 Hawaii beam is in the D12 Post as beam A3BB. For D14, the Hawaii beam is in the D14 Post . The dBw signal level concentric bands should give you something to work with.
     
  6. slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

    10,102
    1,305
    Feb 14, 2013
    Iowa
    So D12's A3BB beam is not just a single transponder spot like the others, but covers all 16 Ka hi CONUS transponders? If that's the case, and based on spear61's comments it sounds like D10 & D11 work similarly, they look to provide provide comparable or slightly better signal strength for Hawaii like D14/D15 will.

    There would be no need for the big dish from a Ka perspective, only Ku from D8/D9S would be 'weak' beams that need the added gain. When Directv someday replaces the satellites at 101 they could do Hawaii installs using the same dish as CONUS. Not sure if it really matters too much in Alaska since it is so big it would be almost impossible to adequately cover, but in Hawaii I'd expect people would prefer a smaller dish from an aesthetic sense.
     
  7. HoTat2

    HoTat2 Hall Of Fame

    7,773
    231
    Nov 16, 2005
    Los...
    From everything I've been able to grasp over the years on this issue, D10, 11, and 12 all use their same respective LiL spotbeams for Hawaii to also supply redirected Ka band nationals to the islands as well. This means that the larger AL/HI dish must indeed be needed primarily for the Ku band birds from 101 which don't have any spotbeams for Hawaii and must use an extended lobe off their CONUS beams to supply nationals.

    D14 will use a spotbeam "C01" for Hawaii that carries redirected Ka nationals only (no locals for HI are supplied by D14).

    Likewise, D15 will provide a spotbeam for HI (and for PR as well) that only carries redirected Ka nationals (no locals "at all" from D15 of course).

    Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk
     
  8. HoTat2

    HoTat2 Hall Of Fame

    7,773
    231
    Nov 16, 2005
    Los...
    Of note also,

    While I would assume that the RDBS beams for D14 are the same as with D15 with a spotbeam for Hawaii and PR. Unlike D15 I can find no specific mention of it in any of the FCC filings for D14 under either the S2869 or S2711 call signs.

    Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk
     
  9. slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

    10,102
    1,305
    Feb 14, 2013
    Iowa
    You can see the beam contours for D14's RDBS on the RB1 link in this forum - at least the D14 link points you there for BSS. Judging by the contours, they are same strength as the midwest for part of the islands, same strength as the western US for the rest of the islands. Not quite as strong as D15's which are closer to Florida strength.
     
  10. HoTat2

    HoTat2 Hall Of Fame

    7,773
    231
    Nov 16, 2005
    Los...
    Yeah...

    I just thought that the beam system for RB-1 and 2 would logically be the same with a main CONUSplus beam for CONUS plus Alaska. And two spotbeams for Hawaii and PR as D15 RDBS payload is designed.

    But I guess that strangely D14 will use only a single broad RDBS beam for CONUS, Akaska, Hawaii, and PR.

    BTW, to Gary,

    The RB-1 and especially RB-2 beam listings are way out of date.

    RB-1 no longer includes a So. American beam and RB-2 no longer includes beams for Mexico and So. America and is composed of the BSS beam listings posted under D15's beams.
     
  11. HoTat2

    HoTat2 Hall Of Fame

    7,773
    231
    Nov 16, 2005
    Los...
    Hey Gary:

    Where did you get these downlink beams for KU-79W?

    As I recently posted in the KU-79W (SKYM-1) thread, the d/l beams for this satellite should be four. Which I think the abbreviations are for;

    TKV - "Transmit, Ku band, Vertical pol." to cover the service area designated "MEX+", which entails Mexico, Central America, and parts of the Caribbean.

    TKH - "Transmit, Ku band, Horiz. pol." for the MEX+ service area as well.

    TBR - "Transmit, BSS band (i.e. RDBS band), Right circular pol." to cover the area of Mexico only. Thus designated as "MEX"

    TBL - "Transmit, BSS band, Left circular pol. RDBS for the MEX area only as well.

    See the Schedule S here: http://licensing.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/ib/forms/attachment_menu.hts?id_app_num=101444&acct=624514&id_form_num=15&filing_key=-256089

    And note GXT files 3, 4, 7, and 8 from the same link as well.
     
  12. HoTat2

    HoTat2 Hall Of Fame

    7,773
    231
    Nov 16, 2005
    Los...
    Hey Gary (me again :) )

    Just checked the latest FCC filings for KU-76W d/l beams (perhaps to be also called "SKYM-2?")

    They're the same beams and service areas as KU-79W ....

    TKV, TKH, TBR, and TBL

    See the Schedule S here: http://licensing.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/ib/forms/attachment_menu.hts?id_app_num=106000&acct=624514&id_form_num=15&filing_key=-272886

    As well as GXT files 3, 4, 7, and 8.
     
  13. Gary Toma

    Gary Toma UNIX

    2,352
    151
    Mar 22, 2006
    Post #152 has just been updated with data from spear61 received tonight. The earlier two beams posted simply did not repeat the H and V beam footprints, which duplicate each other - that is why we now have four beams instead of the earlier two beams.

    I recognize that this data does not agree with the reading of the Schedule S information you have been referencing.

    We may need to try to induce spear61 to come chat with us.
     
  14. HoTat2

    HoTat2 Hall Of Fame

    7,773
    231
    Nov 16, 2005
    Los...
    Ok Gary;

    May have to wait for spear61 to clarify this, because something is confused here....

    For why would KU-79W have CONUS beams?

    None of the GXT files at the link are contour plots for CONUS beams and the RDBS beam plots listed there are not shown in spear61's submissions.

    For reference:

    KU-79W Ku band payload, uplink frequencies 14.0-14.5 GHz on satellite receive beams RKV and RKH from the USMEX service area. Downlink 11.7-12.2 GHz on satellite transmit beams TKV and TKH to the MEX+ service area.

    RDBS band payload, uplink 24.750-25.250 GHz on satellite receive beams RBR and RBL from the MEX service area. Downlink 17.3-17.8 GHz on satellite transmit beams TBR and TBL to the MEX service area.

    Service Area IDs ...

    USMEX = Southern US, Mexico, C.A., and parts of the Caribbean.
    MEX+ = Mexico, C.A., and parts of the Caribbean.
    MEX = Mexico

    Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk
     
  15. Gary Toma

    Gary Toma UNIX

    2,352
    151
    Mar 22, 2006
    Here is a response from spear61 this afternoon regarding our KU79W conundrum discussion.

    While I would love to have a long, descriptive text to share, I am still quite happy that spear61 took the time to respond to some of these most recent posts.

    His input:

    The beams are a direct extraction from the FCC mod Schedule S database file. I do not like to use the GXT files since they frequently contain errors.

    By definition, any beam designed to cover the 48 contiguous states with a standard antenna is Conus. Conus Plus adds the other two states. When the beams are generated, I look at them to see what criteria they fit. The filing summary (cover page) describes it as a KU satellite so that is how I labeled the satellite

    The BSS 17/24 Mhz beam patterns cover the entire 48 states and meet the Conus definition, no matter how they chose to describe it in the narrative.
     
  16. slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

    10,102
    1,305
    Feb 14, 2013
    Iowa
    Sure enough, the original filing for S2861 shows the beam covering the US and says it will be used for HD and 3D (lol) programming. I guess most of us assumed this was a Mexico/LA only satellite and didn't have anything to do with the US. It just doesn't make sense to me that they'd add another location using a standalone FSS dish! Maybe it is just the way the license was offered, but they don't plan to actually use it for customers in the US? Can't see them needing the bandwidth, at least not after they drop MPEG2.
     
  17. HoTat2

    HoTat2 Hall Of Fame

    7,773
    231
    Nov 16, 2005
    Los...
    I just have to believe though that the Schedule S database is wrong here.

    KU-79W or SKYM-1 is for the SKY Mexico service covering Mexico (obviously), Central America, and parts of the Caribbean. Not the US with the exception of the satellite's linear receive beams covering parts of the southern US to allow DIRECTV to uplink from sites like the CBC to transmit programming to it.

    The GXT files, though perhaps error ridden as spear61 says, and the PDF version of the Schedule S nevertheless appear to be correct and approximately match the downlink service beams IS16 is now providing at 79W for the interim until KU-79W arrives.




    Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk
     
  18. May 4, 2015 #118 of 194
    Gary Toma

    Gary Toma UNIX

    2,352
    151
    Mar 22, 2006
    An update on the KU79 Beam Footprint Maps for 5/2/2015 from spear61:

    His notes:
    attached are two mexico BSS 17/24 beams maps

    also attached are the two database files for 79W

    You may might want to dig around in the ku filings. Not sure what that Conus thing was/is. Either it is a fss beam for US, a mistake in attachment or they have a capability they are choosing not to describe at this time. The explanation will be found in the transformer frequency fields associated with the beam.

    Ignore any warnings for missing links, it will open to proper the file. Then build yourself a query for what you are looking for.
     
  19. May 5, 2015 #119 of 194
    slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

    10,102
    1,305
    Feb 14, 2013
    Iowa
    That's another possibility - maybe the satellite has the ability to do CONUS so it can be put to other uses someday, similar to how D15 includes Ku capability even though that can't be used from 103. While Directv doesn't use FSS in CONUS, other providers do so they could sell/lease the satellite if its Mexican beams at 79W were taken over by future satellites.
     
  20. May 6, 2015 #120 of 194
    HoTat2

    HoTat2 Hall Of Fame

    7,773
    231
    Nov 16, 2005
    Los...
    But can DIRECTV legally do that?

    Choose not to reveal a capability like that as part of the application filings for a satellie's authorization to the FCC?

    Isn't DIRECTV supposed to use the customary "... SKYM-1 satellite also has a CONUS+ beam payload, but DIRECTV does not seek an authorization for it's use at this time" type language in the LOA request like with D15's Ku DBS band payload?

    Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk
     

Share This Page

spam firewall