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Is 110 stronger that 119?

Discussion in 'General DISH™ Discussion' started by shilton, Sep 17, 2004.

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  1. shilton

    shilton Godfather

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    Question...does 110 operate at a higher power than 119? I ask because EVERYTIME it rains a little heavy, I get rainfade always losing 119 first. Many times, 110 stays on and I only lose 119. There are no obstructions in front of the dish, no foliage, etc. When its not raining, my signals are at or close to 100+ on both birds, so it throws me for a loop. Any ideas?
     
  2. SimpleSimon

    SimpleSimon Hall Of Fame

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    Insufficient data to respond.

    How do you know you're losing 110? Only specific transponders? If so, what's the strength on THAT tp on a clear day?

    You say "signals are at or close to 100+ on both birds" but that doesn't mean anything without knowing which TPs. "Standard" for aiming is 11 & 12 - both!
     
  3. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    From your perspective in PA, 110 is higher in the sky - 119 is further east. It would make sense that the core channels on 119 would be lost first if the loss is due to heavy cloud cover (I find that thunderstorm clouds are more interrupting than most rain). Your path to 119 does go through less atmosphere ... but not usually enough less to make a difference. Loss of 110 would cut out PPVs, some locals (depending on city), and AT180 channels (most AT120 channels are on 119).

    JL
     
  4. shilton

    shilton Godfather

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    Actually what I said is I lose 119 in rainy weather almost ALL the time and that 110 remains strong. I am talking about ALL transponders on 119 when they go. Heck, I have seen in some cases during a rain where I have ZERO on 119 and still have like 60-70 on 110.
    During clear weather, all transponders come up between 96 and 125 so I know my dish is as peaked as it can be and like i said, nothing is in the way of the dish. Just seems odd to me.
     
  5. Jason Nipp

    Jason Nipp Analog Geek in a Digital World Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Gold Club DBSTalk Club

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    Are you using Legacy or DP LNBF's? Switches? I only ask because the original Legacy switches...SW21 and SW44's were not always the most weather proof and sometimes rainwater would find its way into the switch and play havoc...well I think you see where I'm going...
     
  6. SimpleSimon

    SimpleSimon Hall Of Fame

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    I'll go with Jason's answer. :D Which Jason? nippjas. Check connections.

    lurker - there's not hardly any difference in atmosphere between the 2 birds. It'd be more likely that a local storm track happens to favor knocking one out over the other.

    shilton: I find it extremely unlikely that you're getting ALL transponders on 119. :nono:
     
  7. shilton

    shilton Godfather

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    Actually what I said is I LOSE all transponders on 119, but when I do have them, they all come in between 96-125
     
  8. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Go back and read what I said and you'll find I didn't say that, but I did make a different error. :sure:
    Your path to 119 does go through less atmosphere ... but not usually enough less to make a difference.​
    I intended 110 (since that shot is more straight up than 119). Less storm to pass through assuming the storm doesn't grow or weaken on it's travel from being in the path to 119 and in the path to 110.

    JL
     
  9. SimpleSimon

    SimpleSimon Hall Of Fame

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    JL - Yup - ya got me :)

    shilton: What do you get for strength on 119 tp 5,7,9?

    But in any event, we're till waiting for you to answer the question Jason posed in post #5 - what is your outdoor configuration? LNBFs, switches, Legacy/DishPro?
     
  10. scooper

    scooper Hall Of Fame

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    Ideally - I wouldn't have ANY switches outside in the weather (the builtins for the TWINs and QUADs and the builtin switches on the D* Phase III dishes excepted) just because of that reason. My two SW21's are safely in my attic, and my ground blocks just outside the vent are safely under the soffet. No connectors on outside cable except at the groundblocks, and they are drip-looped / o-ringed / rubber bootie covered.
     
  11. Nick

    Nick Retired, part-time PITA DBSTalk Club

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    Actually, JL, you made two fundamental misstatements:

    1. 119W is 9° west of 110W, not east.

    2. The lower the elevation of a given sat, the more atmosphere the signal has to travel through. That's the reason a setting sun appears to dim as it approaches the western horizon. Since 119 is at a lower elevation than 110, the signal from 119 travels through more atmosphere, not less as you state.

    I hope this helps. :)
     
  12. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    #2 was corrected in my reply to Simon. Thanks for catching #1 - not sure how I got there ... further to the right from the perspective of the dish, right is east on most maps, dang I'm looking through the back of the map.

    It's funny how saying something is not important turned into several posts where we all agree that the difference is not important. :D

    So, why doesn't 110 "go out" as often as 119? Is it a perception case where the core programming is on 119 and it is more noticable when it is down than if 110 fails? Is the exact aiming of the dish favoring 110 over 119? Are the working transponders on 110 spotbeams (which are usually higher in received strength)? Is it an equipment failure on the ground? Inquiring minds want to know ...

    JL
     
  13. JohnH

    JohnH Hall Of Fame

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    The way storms move here in Pennsylvania, 119 would almost always be the first one to go out. It's that west to east movement of the storms which causes this. It is possible that your alignment is a bit better for 110 than 119, but I have noticed that 110 "holds" a little bit better than 119. It depends on the storm track somewhat.
     
  14. Charles Oliva

    Charles Oliva Godfather

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    Here in Hawaii, Tps. 3, 22-31 from 110(E6) hold much better than the other 110 tps. and all the tps. from 119, and 110 is east and lower in the sky than 119 from here. :) So it may just be that 110 holds better due to E6( no spot beams).
     
  15. SimpleSimon

    SimpleSimon Hall Of Fame

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    Remember, Hawaii IS in effect, spotbeamed. Check the coverage maps. ;)
     
  16. Bob Haller

    Bob Haller Banned User

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    Last time I checked spotbeams filled much of 110 and they are stronger than 119, and yes in stornms 119 goes out first for me.

    but I would check connectors and perhaps add some waterproffing...
     
  17. Mike123abc

    Mike123abc Hall Of Fame/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

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    The national beams on 119 (E7) and 110 (E8) are 240 watts. The only difference should be elevation (higher would appear stronger) and dish alignment.
     
  18. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    E8 at 110, just like E7 at 119, has five transponders dedicated to spotbeams. The remainder of the transponders on E6, E7, and E8 are "ConUS" plus Hawaii.

    On paper it looks like there are more spotbeams, 25, than other transponders (16 other TPs at 119 and 24 other TPs at 110). But those spotbeams only "fill" five transponders. E10 launching next year will likely dedicate additional transponders to spotbeam use.

    JL
     
  19. Charles Oliva

    Charles Oliva Godfather

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    E6(110) does not spotbeam Hawaii, it's a lobe off of the main CONUS beam just repeaked over the Hawaiian Islands.
    E7(119) and E8(110) does use spotbeams for Hawaii, but they are spots off the main CONUS transponders(works in conjunction with the CONUS tps.). Unlike the LIL spots which are individually dedicated. On my 24" dish for 119 the CONUS tps. are in the 70's the Hawaii LIL spotbeam is in the low 100's.
     
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