Is talking about “moving” allowed here?

Discussion in 'General DISH™ Discussion' started by edisonprime, Apr 19, 2020.

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  1. edisonprime

    edisonprime New Member

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    New to actually post and not lurk on occasion so just curious.
     
  2. scooper

    scooper Hall Of Fame

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    No. There is another forum (satellite guys.com ?) that MAY be more tolerant of that, but I sort of doubt it.
     
  3. mwdxer

    mwdxer Well-Known Member

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    The subject used to be discussed a lot 10 years ago, but I have not seen anyone talk about it for years. With the advent of streaming and IP addresses, I doubt as many are interested. At least I have not seen it mentioned in a long time.
     
  4. NYDutch

    NYDutch DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    I suppose it depends on whether you're referring to actual service address moving such as we do as fulltime RV'ers, or bogus moving to get out of market stations. Actual moving would be a legitimate posting issue I would think...
     
  5. mwdxer

    mwdxer Well-Known Member

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    I think he means Moving, as in receiving out of market TV which is not authorized unfortunately.
     
  6. satcrazy

    satcrazy Icon

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    Great...
    what would be the point of that?
    I don't follow.
     
  7. NYDutch

    NYDutch DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    Let's say you live near the edge of a Designated Market Area (DMA) and would prefer to get the locals from the neighboring DMA instead. Since spot beams often cover more than one DMA, there's no technological reason you can't receive them, just a rules based reason that says your receiver only gets authorized for the locals in the assigned DMA for your service address. "Moving" in this sense, means switching your service address with the satellite provider to somewhere in the neighboring DMA so the provider will authorize your receiver for those locals instead. It's technically a violation on their part to knowingly provide you with those out of market locals, but it's not a violation on your part to receive them. What is a violation of the Terms Of Service though, is giving the provider a bogus service address. Admittedly, it isn't something that anyone at the provider is going to any lengths to enforce though.
     
  8. satcrazy

    satcrazy Icon

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    Great...
    thanks for the explanation.
    since this only involves locals, seems like a bit of trouble to go through.
    my guess is that it involves sports?
     
  9. mwdxer

    mwdxer Well-Known Member

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    They want customers. People that have one of the Canadian satellite services covers their tracks and the Canadian companies are not going after them either as long as the money is there. It is like "Don't ask...Don't Tell" sort of thing.
     
  10. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Cross border moving opens another can of worms. It is definitely illegal under Canadian law to subscribe to US services. Historically Canada has enforced their laws - the Mounties have gone after violators.

    The US law banning Canadian reception is more esoteric (requiring a license to receive a signal from the foreign satellites). In the US it would be up to the FCC to fine people receiving the foreign satellite signal without a license. When DIRECTV and DISH have used Canadian and Mexican satellites for US reception they have obtained the appropriate licenses on behalf of their customers (otherwise nearly every customer would be violating the FCC rule).

    Lying about where your equipment is located isn't rocket science. There really doesn't need to be a tutorial or a lot of discussion. It has been a divisive subject - which is why it is generally avoided. Plus there isn't much more to say - nobody needs to read 1000 posts to figure out how to lie to their provider. If someone chooses to make it their life mission to teach people to lie they will likely be considered a spammer. We are a forum for many topics - please discuss more than one topic (in appropriate threads per topic).
     
  11. mwdxer

    mwdxer Well-Known Member

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    The Canadians have a "Cottage" thing when a Canadian has a home in the U.S. they can easily view their programming from here. If an American would want to use something like Shaw satellite, they would either have to have a Canadian physical address or a broker. The brokers can be busted if the Canadian government knows they are selling to viewers outside Canada. As far a Shaw goes, if they get wind that an American is viewing their product from the U.S., they often will say nothing and just shut the guy off. I have never heard of the U.S. government going after an American viewing TV from other countries.
     
  12. NYDutch

    NYDutch DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    There is no US law prohibiting anyone from receiving and viewing/listening to radio/TV signals from anywhere. If the service carried on those signals is encrypted, then breaking that encryption without authorization could be classed as theft of services or some other violation, but receiving the signal itself violates no laws.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2020
  13. mwdxer

    mwdxer Well-Known Member

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    True, but fooling a service in believing you live elsewhere when you don't, even though you are paying for the service is probably a no-no under the DMA rules, but some do it I am sure.
     
  14. NYDutch

    NYDutch DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    Yes, in that case you're decrypting an encrypted signal fraudulently since your subscription terms only include the locals in your assigned DMA. Again, receiving the signal itself is legal, it's the decryption that's the violation in this case. It's not something that's likely to cause much of a fuss with your carrier though...
     
  15. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator

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    As noted, there is a license required to receive foreign satellites. There is a list of foreign satellites that are pre-approved and I have not seen the license requirement enforced - but the receive dish license requirement has been referred to in requests by DIRECTV and DISH to use foreign satellite slots to serve US customers. The law is specific to satellite received not the content carried. It does not specifically block "radio" or "TV" - it restricts reception of the satellite signal.

    It is one of those fine points such as how many milliseconds one has to have no forward motion at a stop sign to avoid not being cited for failure to stop. If the tires did not come to a complete stop the vehicle did not stop. Although in this case there is no officer eager to harass the operator for a technical violation of the law. So it is a moot point.
     
  16. mwdxer

    mwdxer Well-Known Member

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    Does this pertain to back yard large dishes too? I still have my working dish (8.5 foot). In the NW, besides receiving U.S. satellites, I also get Mexican & Canadian satellites. I presume those are perfectly legal to watch? I would guess someone with a backyard dish, it would be impossible to regulate what they could watch anyway.
     
  17. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Most satellites with service to the US are on the list. All satellite receive dishes required licensing until October 1979. Now (technically) FCC licenses are only needed if you're receiving signals from a foreign satellite not on the exempt list. I don't believe the FCC wants to deal with receive only licensing any more than the people owning dishes. Receive dishes do not harm the RF spectrum - and that is the FCC's concern.
     
  18. NYDutch

    NYDutch DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    Are you saying that I could be violating some regulation by simply detecting an unlisted foreign satellite signal even though I'm unable to watch or listen to the content due to encryption?
     
  19. mwdxer

    mwdxer Well-Known Member

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    I would think "Anything" in the clear on any satellite would be fair game. The FCC never really cared if you had a big dish or not. You are right, they have bigger fish to fry.
     
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  20. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I don't want to get in to the weeds of "simply detecting". It reminds be of the time where cordless phones and early land mobile and analog cellular phones could be received on a store bought scanner. In that case "intentional reception" of phone calls was made illegal and manufacturers were required to block reception of cellular phone bands (which could easily be reversed on many scanners). Volumes could be written about what reception is legal or not and what content can be disclosed and in what manner. All beyond the point of this discussion.

    They cared until October 1979 for all dishes - then they realized the regulatory burden of licensing every TVRO dish in the US and created the blanket rules. Reception of satellites licensed to transmit by the US and a select list of foreign satellites no longer required a license.

    The only penalty I see for not licensing a receive dish is that the FCC will not protect reception at that location.
     
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