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It's time to open up NFL Sunday Ticket to everyone?

Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by jtn, Oct 31, 2007.

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  1. Oct 31, 2007 #21 of 341
    mhking

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    Apples and oranges. Home NFL team games are available (unless they're blacked out - like the Falcons will likely be this week) to home markets, just as baseball is. Out of market baseball requires Extra Innings. Out of market NFL requires Sunday Ticket.

    Only difference is Sunday Ticket's exclusivity -- and at least for now, I don't see the problem, other than the competitive advantage it gives DirecTV (which is not a problem. That's how business works.)....
     
  2. Oct 31, 2007 #22 of 341
    davemayo

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    Some people think that D* would crash and burn if it lost ST. I'm not so sure about that. What do others think?
     
  3. Oct 31, 2007 #23 of 341
    ccr1958

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    $500...count me out
     
  4. Oct 31, 2007 #24 of 341
    mhking

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    The antitrust exemption in relation to protected markets is not exclusive to the NFL -- All four pro leagues use their so-called exclusivity to protect their home teams and their television franchises. After all, it gives them freedom to make money from television and online video.

    I'm a rabid fan, and if the price point were lower, would happily pay for Sunday Ticket, but I have so far refused to pay the DirecTV price. That's my choice. Sorry, the government does not have an obligation to "protect" the leagues (much as they don't have a mandate to protect local television stations -- i.e., distant locals, but I digress). If the leagues want my dollar, then they have to compete for it, just like any other business.
     
  5. Oct 31, 2007 #25 of 341
    jtn

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    I doubt it, those who want DirecTV to have exclusivity may use that as a scare tactic. They were fine when they didn't have exclusivity.
     
  6. Oct 31, 2007 #26 of 341
    mhking

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    Nope - the Sunday Ticket subscribers are not what is bolstering DirecTV. It's a nice plus, and it lends a fantastic addition to the product portfolio, but it's not the be-all-end-all of D*.
     
  7. Oct 31, 2007 #27 of 341
    davemayo

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    That's what I think as well. Maybe too much marketing hype....:confused:
     
  8. Oct 31, 2007 #28 of 341
    jameswei

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    ST is big time with businesses. Check out a sports book in Las Vegas on a Sunday. They have every game going all over the casino, multiple TVs everywhere. Same think for sports bars. They'd lose a lot of business on a Sunday without the ST. You'd be suprised how many people depend on that environment to see their team play.
     
  9. Oct 31, 2007 #29 of 341
    ClubSteeler

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    Once you honor your commitment with D*, cancel total choice and keep NFLST. Then every year, NFLST will auto-renew for you. I have been doing this for years. Every Sunday during football season, I pull out the D* receiver, watch my steelers game, and put it away.

    If you read the D* terms and conditions, it states, and I quote:

    "To receive sports programming and to order pay per view by remote, a DIRECTV subscription is required (except stand-alone NFL SUNDAY TICKET renewals) "



    It's a catch-22. You need to have Total Choice to get NFLST. To get Total choice, you need to activate a receiver. To activate a receiver, you get locked into a 1 or 2 year commitment.

    However, once you satisfy that commitment, then you have more power..
     
  10. Oct 31, 2007 #30 of 341
    jtn

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    That's the point, people regardless of who they subscribe with shouldn't have to go to the local bar or casino to watch the programs they want.
     
  11. Oct 31, 2007 #31 of 341
    cruxer

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    The ESPN guy is very disingenuous in his arguments. I, even as a D* customer, would love to see Sunday Ticket go to more providers, if only to bring some competition and reduce (hopefully) prices. I'm currently priced out of buying it at $350/yr.

    But I can't abide by these quotes from the article:
    "...This price would make the NFL Network, a seasonal product for a specialized audience, one of the most expensive items in the national cable universe. ESPN, which is to cable what cheeseburgers are to McDonald's, charges $30 to $35 per year for multiple channels with very broad appeal. CNN charges about $5 a year to the cable carriers.."

    I would be willing to bet that ESPN's demo numbers are really similar to NFLN. I know plenty of people with cable/sat who NEVER watch ESPN, because they aren't sports fans, yet they subsidize the $30-35 yearly cost through their basic cable/sat package fees. This guy has no problem with that, but blasts NFLN for wanting similar treatment. He'd have a better argument if he said both ESPN and NFLN should be on a sports tier.

    "A decade ago, observers thought satellite television would supplant cable, but this hasn't happened. Satellite TV's technical limits (not only can millions not receive it but the signal pixelates in rain) have proved a bigger obstacle than once assumed..."

    I don't think I even need to address this fallacy on this forum.

    "...Sunday Ticket is offered on cable in Canada and Mexico, plus offered via Yahoo broadband everywhere in the world except the United States. So most American taxpayers who paid for the stadia that make NFL profits possible can't watch the games they choose -- but anyone in Canada, Mexico or Liechtenstein is free to watch any NFL game."

    I live in Greenville, SC, so it's unlikely I've paid ANY taxes to subsidize any pro stadiums, since there aren't any in SC. Additionally, my "local" team, the Panthers, typically would have their ST games blacked out for me, and I would need to watch them on my local affiliate. If you're watching out-of-market games, it's not likely that your tax money has contributed materially to the stadium where the game is being played. Local team games are usually carried by the local affiliate, not ST.

    There's more, but I have to do some work at some point. ;)

    -c
     
  12. Oct 31, 2007 #32 of 341
    bidger

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    If you're talking MLB, that's not true in my area. The only MLB games available without a multichannel provider for me are the Saturday FOX games and their Post-Season coverage and that's a Grade B signal. Now, if folks want the first round of Playoffs and the NLCS, they have to have cable, sat, or FIOS.

    As far as the NFL, like I said before, FOX is Grade B and so is CBS. The only games I get for free are the SNF broadcasts.

    Ken H hit the nail on the head as far as the NFL's reason for choosing DIRECTV. If they ever capture a good size of the market share, maybe the rules will change. I think you'll see more and more Sports going the Pay TV route anyway.
     
  13. Oct 31, 2007 #33 of 341
    mhking

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    If they want it, quite simply, they will pay for it.
     
  14. Oct 31, 2007 #34 of 341
    paulman182

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    I don't think it is essential to the life of D* but I do think it has much value beyond simply the money it brings in directly.
     
  15. Oct 31, 2007 #35 of 341
    Earl Bonovich

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    1 BILLION would only be about 200 Million more then they paid for the last contract...

    It would all depend on how many years the contrat was for.

    Based on the current subscription numbers..... even a $50 or $100 increase in the cost... probably isn't going to hurt Sunday Ticket.

    But we will see in 2010/2011 when the contract goes up for renewal.
     
  16. Oct 31, 2007 #36 of 341
    jfalkingham

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    I don't get all of this....

    If I own the rights, and you pay me the most, then I give you the access. The whole MLB extra innings thing rubbed me the wrong way too. Pretty communistic for a government to tell a content owner he must sell the package to all bidders. It's not like you are blacked out of your home team. You want the out of market stuff, then DIRECTV or any other carrier should have the right to sign exclusive deals at mega bucks and use that as an exclusive marketing arrangement. NFLST should go to the highest bidder.

    You want the content, pay for it. Free T.V. is not free, someone is paying for it.
     
  17. Oct 31, 2007 #37 of 341
    jameswei

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    I agree, if ST leaves D* it will probably end up in some form of PPV or on-demand PPV, but it must remain available nationally.
     
  18. Oct 31, 2007 #38 of 341
    davemayo

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    Those whining the loudest about ST supposedly can't get D* because of LOS or other issues. So, they don't have the choice, even if they would be willing to pay $$$$. Again, I see that as NFL's choice. They decided (for a number of reasons, some of which are discussed earlier in this thread) to limit the number of people who can get ST.
     
  19. Oct 31, 2007 #39 of 341
    Chuck W

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    Not really. The way I understand it is Directv has in their contract an exclusive negotiatiing window. So Directv gets to negotiate with the NFL first. If the 2 side cannot agree on the next contract, then and only then will negotiations open up to the highest bidder, per se.
     
  20. Oct 31, 2007 #40 of 341
    Earl Bonovich

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    On the other/other side of the coin (the third side).

    Would Sunday Ticket exist if it wsn't for DirecTV?

    When it was first introduced... Could DishNetwork have done it?
    None of the cable-co's could have, as at the time... there was probably tripple the number of cable companies.... they would have needed something similar to what they do now with MLBEI... a "top level" company to get the rights.

    I don't even think the CableCo's could do it today... they are already clamoring to try and find more bandwith for basic HD channels... let alone 8 SD and 8 HD.... And given the Cable-Co model (which is still regional head ends, and custom for each one)... it would be very difficult.

    DishNetwork... maybe... maybe could stuff it in (like DirecTV does, but shutting down some channels)....

    AT&T HomeZone... Can't see it... Can't see the NFL agreeing to them carrying it, as AT&T HomeZone future is not "great"... there are fundimental limitation in their technology as it is today...

    FiOS... They have the bandwith, but do they have the penetration?

    -------------

    Look at it from the NFL side of things:

    1 Exclusive Carrier
    1 LARGE guaranteed "payment"
    1 carrier to worry about with regards to "distribution"
    1 carrier that has been doing it for almost 10 years, and they know what they are getting
    1 carrier that is also writing very big checks for advertising spots..

    What is the benefit to the NFL allowing other carriers?
    The marginal increase in subscribers?

    Do you think if COMCAST starting offering a $350 Sunday Ticket package... the number of subscribes would drastically increase enough ?

    Once you go to a multi-carrier based method... You introduce a lot of the EI arguments we had earlier this year:

    1) Smaller amounts from each carrier paid to the NFL... that would be a base fee, then an amount based on subscription revenuews
    2) NFL has to do most of the advertising for it, as no one carrier is going to advertise Sunday Ticket as a "general" product
    3) Inconsistancies in different markets (very difficult to manage and keep track of each and every individual regional cable-co... )
    4) Incosistancy in new features of the service (like the RedZone channel, interactive, and other future planned things)

    So while on the surface it "seems" like a no brainer to open it up to more carriers.... take a few steps back... and look at the entire table..... there is a lot more too it, then the "perks" of a few more subscribers...
     
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