Job Recruiters

Discussion in 'The OT' started by SledgeHammer, Sep 17, 2020.

  1. SledgeHammer

    SledgeHammer Icon

    3,365
    518
    Dec 28, 2007
    These folks are so unprofessional imo. Unfortunately I have to deal with them in my industry. I was contacted by one last week. She said she had FIVE opportunities she wanted to submit me to. I was like cool, here's my resume. She wanted me to take a test (30 mins) to present to the employers. Before I did I told her I want $xxx, so all these are in that range? She says yes. And all of them are local or open to remote? She says yes.

    Let's see... now I've taken the test and scored an 88/100 and she said that's high, she usually sees high 70s to mid 80s for experienced people.

    #1: was filled before I was even sent the test
    #2: 2 hrs away and won't do perm remote (uh... how is that local or perm remote??)
    #3: actually a position in Texas so the pay is too low for me
    #4: was already submitted there
    #5: they are "very interested in me", but again not perm remote

    Is this girl really that ******* stupid? I verified all this stuff with her before I wasted my time on her stupid test and not a single one of these jobs fit my criteria.

    Any you wonder why I've stuck around at my low paying, no raise job for so long lol :D.
     
  2. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    21,650
    401
    Jan 7, 2005
    Kittrell, NC
    I hate to say it, but a lot of different recruiters I've dealt with over the years are varying degrees of horrible.

    The worst one, probably, many years ago... First problem was that they wanted me to submit references, which I did... but then instead of calling my references to ask about me, they tried to also recruit my references! This pissed off my references and I told them so! Meanwhile, they sent me on a client interview BEFORE hiring me... and they sent a modified version of my resume to the client that had mistakes and said I knew things that I didn't know... I was asked about those, and I had to honestly say that the contracting company had not shown me what they sent to the client or I would have corrected them on the spot. I think the client not only liked my actual qualifications but liked how I handled the awkwardness of that situation... so the client wanted me BUT the contract company had not hired me yet... and I knew that... so when they tried to lowball me, I turned them away until they came back with the amount I wanted. So... in that one case, their horribleness actually worked in my favor in the end!
     
  3. SledgeHammer

    SledgeHammer Icon

    3,365
    518
    Dec 28, 2007
    I don't like to give references period. You can't trust them. Then they act like you owe them something afterwards. At least I have a built in excuse this time around. I've been at my job 11 yrs, so I just say all my references are at my current job, so I can't really give you that. Only really had one place ask me for references anyways...
     
  4. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    21,650
    401
    Jan 7, 2005
    Kittrell, NC
    It seems like not that many places ask for references these days... but every now and then you run across one who suddenly wants 2 or 3 references. It's weird.
     
  5. steve053

    steve053 Godfather

    473
    31
    May 11, 2007
    Brookfield, WI
    I had a similar experience w/ a recruiter 15 years ago. Recruiter contacted me, Told him I was happy in my current role, told him my salary expectations for me consider leaving, and that I would participate in a phone interview. Phone interview progressed to a formal interview, then a 60 minute online 'quiz' on my emotional intelligence, and a second formal interview with the company founder that I drove over 90 miles to the interview (yes, 180 round trip). I was interested, but the job was a 50 minute commute each way and I'd only consider it if the compensation met my original expectations. He said no problem, they want you. Recruiter set up one last formal face-to-face where they were going to formally offer me the job. Told him I'd accept, but was firm on the salary. At the meeting they offered me role at significantly less than my minimum, with a promised raise once I completed a certification. Even with the promised raise it was over $15k less than my minimum ask from day one. They were stunned when I told them what I wanted. I shared that I had this expectation from the get go and would never have progressed knowing the salary. Never heard from the recruiter. Hopefully he was fired.
     
  6. billsharpe

    billsharpe Hall Of Fame

    3,147
    150
    Jan 25, 2007
    Southern...
    Many years ago I went to a Sunday morning job interview on a boat in Orange County. I had a pleasant conversation but they didn't offer me a drink, any food, or any job.
     
  7. SledgeHammer

    SledgeHammer Icon

    3,365
    518
    Dec 28, 2007
    References are useless. Nobody is going to give a reference that's going to be honest about them.
     
  8. SledgeHammer

    SledgeHammer Icon

    3,365
    518
    Dec 28, 2007
    Even if you go direct a lot of companies pull the same BS. When they spot somebody who is out of work for a while they will rip them off every which way they can. I am currently employed, so I'm not seeing that too much this go around of job hunting. Have talked to a few companies who scoff at the money I want or make low ball offers and I walk away. I don't want anything crazy, just competitive market. For the most part, most of the companies I've talked to agree to my salary expectations. Just haven't gotten a good job offer yet. Have gotten a couple that were good in the salary dept but had other issues like obsolete tech, etc.
     
  9. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    21,650
    401
    Jan 7, 2005
    Kittrell, NC
    It has always been weird in a way to me... because it seems to me that if I'm asked to produce a list of References, I'm going to produce a list of people I know will say good things... so why bother? On the other hand, I suppose it might mea something if I can find people who are willing to "go on the record" of a sort saying good things. But, most of the best jobs I've ever had didn't require references really to get me there.
     
  10. SledgeHammer

    SledgeHammer Icon

    3,365
    518
    Dec 28, 2007
    Well, the problem with refs even if you believe they will only say good stuff about you, you're putting your life in their hands. Especially if you don't "get your stories straight". If you tell the employer that you worked on "A" and you ref says you worked on "B", you're already burned and even if you and your ref get on the same page about saying you did "A", the ref checker can hound your ref which will annoy them. I know I gave a ref to somebody at some point because I felt guilty to say no and somebody called me to check up on them and it was a 30 min convo and I felt like I was being interviewed. Huge PITA.
     
  11. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator

    50,988
    2,294
    Apr 17, 2003
    Michiana
    I would probably be a bad reference. First, I generally do not answer the phone unless I recognize the number - so if they called me they would probably get voicemail. Second, it probably would be a "just the facts" abbreviated answers with no color. "Yep, they showed up for work. Yep. I worked with them." I hate the job search process and would prefer that references were not part of the process. Fortunately I don't have to look too often (twice in the past 25 years).

    I am not impressed by third party head hunters or recruiters. Too many seem to solicit people who have decent jobs and try to pull them away. If a company wants to hire me we can talk, but I keep getting blind emails that are as bad as the Nigerian Prince or refinance my student loan scams. People trying to make a buck off of me.
     
  12. SledgeHammer

    SledgeHammer Icon

    3,365
    518
    Dec 28, 2007
    3rd party recruiters are useless. They sell themselves as pre-screening candidates or hunting them out. I've had a few that actually do "some" pre-screening, but for the most part they just forward your resume and collect a % of your pay for 1 yr. Let's be honest, for the most part, the 3rd party firms like to hire the supermodel types to sweet talk the managers into signing with the firm. They don't know anything technical other then asking if I have a few buzzwords.

    I'm working with one 3rd party firm now, oh man, she is going wwaaayyyy overboard with the screening and stuff. So far I think I've talked to her about 5 times on the phone, taken a test, talked to her boss at the recruiting firm and tomorrow I have a 1st round with the hiring manager finally. Like just submit my resume already sheesh lol. I'm kind of worried that if I get the job, she's going to call me all the time for follow ups.

    But I am extremely sick of looking for a job after all this time, so I have to play nice :D.
     
    Stewart Vernon likes this.
  13. Getteau

    Getteau Icon

    985
    71
    Dec 19, 2007
    Houston
    I've dealt with recruiters from both sides of the desk. As a hiring manager, they did help me find people. However, most of the time, they just pulled resumes from the various services and 80-90% of the resumes they sent me didn't come close to matching the job description I was looking for. Pay was also an issue with some of them and I kicked a few to the curb who sent me people that were asking way more than I was willing to pay or sent me people that were completely overqualified for the position. I made my salary requirements very clear up-front and if they tried to waste everyone's time by submitting people that would never take the job, they got the boot.

    AS far as using them to find a job, getting double-submitted to jobs and getting pressured to interview for jobs I had no interest in was the norm. In the early days of my career, I did a lot of helpdesk/desktop support. They would see that on my resume and instantly wanted to submit me for those jobs. I quickly learned to tell them I had no interest or desire to take a 50% pay cut to go do it again. I've also had a couple submit me on jobs where the pay was completely wrong. After going through the entire process and finding out we were 20K+ off on salary, I started having very blunt conversations on the phone about my salary requirements and it was one of the first things I discussed on the phone with the HR rep at the company I was being submitted to. Once I started doing that, the time waste for wrong salary jobs went away.
     
  14. SledgeHammer

    SledgeHammer Icon

    3,365
    518
    Dec 28, 2007
    I'm a Software Engineer and I've gotten hit up for jobs like CNC machining. I know what a CNC machine is, but I'd hardly be able to program one. Nowhere on my profile or resume does it say anything about CNC.

    Ya, pay is an issue. I usually try to let the company or recruiter throw out the first number. I have about a 50% success rate with getting them to go first lol. If pressured, I know what market is for me. Like you, I say I want $x + x% bonus and the recruiters sometimes respond with "Oh, they can only pay up to $x - $20,000 + 10% is that ok? Uh.... no lol... Generally, I'd say 80%+ of the companies I'm talking to don't have any issue with my salary expectations.

    I'm seeing 2 types of interviews this go around. 1) we don't even want to talk to you yet... go online and take this 1 - 2hr programming test and then we'll see if we want to talk to you 2) I'm going to grill you about a bunch of minor details about everything on your resume. You used Windows? Awesome! What port does LDAP use to talk to Active Directory? Like who cares? who memorizes that stuff?

    Re: #1 seeing a few types there. Some companies will give you a small programming task that is representative of day to day work while others will give you a college text book algorithm problem. That's great... so its a requirement of the job to memorize 100s of algorithms? I've been programming for 20+ yrs and never had to do that once.

    Amazon was the worst... they give you a college text book algorithm problem and you have to write 100% perfect code in pretty much a notepad application where in real life you have a development environment with auto-complete, etc. That's like you going in for a photoshop interview and they tell you to do a bunch of photo manipulation in MS Paint lol.

    If I was the interviewer for a software engineer I might ask some minor details, trivia questions, but you can tell when you ask them about their experience if they are BSing you. Then I might have them go up on the whiteboard and design something, but I wouldn't expect perfect code. That's just dumb.
     
    Stewart Vernon likes this.
  15. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    21,650
    401
    Jan 7, 2005
    Kittrell, NC
    I forgot... one time I was a reference for someone. I got a call one day, expecting to answer a few questions about working with the person... instead, the "interviewer" wanted to send me an application and have me go through a whole formal process of filling out a bunch of forms and stuff. I explained that I was happy to answer some questions and offer some insight on my time working with the person, but I didn't have time or interest in filling out long forms and applications for the contracting company. At that point they were no longer interested in talking about the person who had asked for my reference and they hung up. I explained this all to the person who had given my name out as reference, and suggested to them that they might not want to work for this company.
     
    SledgeHammer likes this.
  16. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator

    50,988
    2,294
    Apr 17, 2003
    Michiana
    "Reference" on a job application should be people who can vouch for the applicant - not referring additional candidates to be interviewed. :D
     
  17. SledgeHammer

    SledgeHammer Icon

    3,365
    518
    Dec 28, 2007
    Had another recruiter call me today about 2 jobs... told him I am looking for $xxx, he says that's very doable and is going to submit me. Got an urgent call back from him just now that it turns out that job A is $xxx - $20k and job B is $xxx - $30k :rolleyes:. Job A is based in Phoenix and is a perm remote. I'm in So California. Apparently they want to pay everybody Phoenix salaries lol. You'd think they'd realize that a house in Phoenix is HALF the cost of one in So Cal.

    Not going to surprise anybody, but its some else from the same agency that I started this thread about lol.
     
  18. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    21,650
    401
    Jan 7, 2005
    Kittrell, NC
    I also often get rejected by the "filtering system" for jobs I'm well qualified for... then the same recruiter will send me job offers for things I'm in no way qualified to do and don't mention anywhere on my resume. It's like a clown car some days.
     
  19. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator

    50,988
    2,294
    Apr 17, 2003
    Michiana
    Perhaps the "filtering system" is set to weed out the highly qualified (who will demand pay equal to their qualifications) and match less qualified people that the companies know they can low ball ("we are doing you a favor offering you this job").
     
    Stewart Vernon likes this.
  20. SledgeHammer

    SledgeHammer Icon

    3,365
    518
    Dec 28, 2007
    Yup, its a clown show EVERY day.

    Got an update on the Phoenix job, not only is it over $20k lower then what I told the recruiter I wanted, its not perm remote either lol.

    Also got rejected this morning by the place that had me take a 200 minute test (which I completed in 100 minutes and got 100% on). Didn't even speak to a person there other then the recruiter and aced the test in half the time and couldn't even talk to the hiring manager. Supposedly the recruiter is going to fwd my resume to other hiring managers.

    I sent out a ton of resumes this past weekend (probably around 10) and already got immediate rejections from 2 companies.

    Software engineering is a very technical field and recruiters are not technical people, so they don't know anything. I.e. if a boss tells the recruiter he wants a J2EE person and the recruiter sees a resume with Java, he might reject it immediately without knowing that J2EE = Java. Or they might reject you because you're missing one item. Now obviously the importance of "one item" depends on the item. If its a small thing, you can pick it up on the job, but 99.99% of recruiters don't know what you can quickly pick up and what you can't.

    Seems a lot of companies are trying to find that 100% perfect match.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2020

Share This Page

spam firewall

Advertisements