Job Recruiters

Discussion in 'The OT' started by SledgeHammer, Sep 17, 2020.

  1. SledgeHammer

    SledgeHammer Icon

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    Yup. I have a job now, although not great, but I'm paying close attention to how the companies I'm interviewing with treat me during the process. I won't take a low ball offer and I won't work with somebody who is rude during the process.

    The "filtering system" as I posted above is usually either an automated system that does keyword matching against your resume or a recruiter who doesn't know anything about the field.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2020
  2. SledgeHammer

    SledgeHammer Icon

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    Just had a call from another recruiter. How does somebody with a super thick indian accent decide to go into a career that requires being on the phone constantly? I seriously couldn't understand a word the guy was saying. Thankfully he sent me the job requirements in email in parallel, so I could see I already talked to that company.
     
  3. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Gold Club DBSTalk Club

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    I can't remember where I saw it, but recently I saw a discussion where a job posting had the standard "must have four years of experience" and listed a product that was less than two years old. The person who invented the product was turned down for the job.
     
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  4. SledgeHammer

    SledgeHammer Icon

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    Here's a new one: Recruiter cold called me about a position. Was for a company I never heard of, so I started asking a few questions like how many employees, etc. and he tells me 50.

    Me: Oh, ok. Yeah, I think that's a bit small for me, I'm looking for something more established
    Him: They've been around for 20 yrs and are profitable and growing like crazy, I just placed 5 people there over the past 6 months
    Me: Yeah, I'm just looking for something stable
    Him: How are they not stable?!?! 20+ yrs.
    Me: Yeah, you said they've been around 20 years and they only have 50 employees, that's not a growing company.
    Him: But I just placed 5 people there!
    Me: Thanks again, but I'm just looking for something more in the enterprise level
    Him: But what can it hurt to talk to them?
    Me: Well, I don't want to waste anybodys time if I'm never going to go there
    .
    .
    .

    and it went on for a few more minutes and he became increasingly annoyed me with until he eventually hung up on me.

    I like how companies reject people for stupid reasons all the time and don't care, but when you reject them, they get all pissed.

    I remember back in April, I got an offer from a company. I was happy with the salary and the bonus, and there wasn't anything inherently wrong with the company. My main issue there was it was a medical company so a lot of FDA red tape + useless tech. After my second round, the recruiter emailed me and said they wanted to make me an offer, so I responded that I'd have to pass as the tech was a concern for me. She asked if I could talk to the VP because they really wanted me to make sure I didn't misunderstand anything. I did and got the same vibe about the tech, so the VP asked me to talk to the architect as he would have all the nitty gritty on the tech. I did that too and even he confirmed. So I told the hiring manager thanks, but I think it would be better to focus on more current tech. He kind of acted annoyed.

    Man, I think I've been rejected by AT LEAST 50 companies over the past year. Probably more.
     
  5. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Yep. Sometimes I even have this conversation with recruiters, when I get to talk to one... about how the most important things they *should* be looking for are relevant, not necessarily exact, experience and a demonstrated ability to adapt. Almost every company I've ever worked for did things differently than other companies I worked for... and many use different software (I'm a Technical Writer/Illustrator) to do their work... and so, I've often started jobs where I have to binge-learn their specific process and maybe a new tool for a week or two... but I can do that because I'm good at what I do. Meanwhile, they will look for an exact match for someone who claims specific software experience, and hire someone who doesn't know the ins and outs of actual tech writing/illustration good practices... and then I'll see the job open again in 6 months.

    One time I kept seeing the same job open and close and open over a couple of years... happened to be a company I had worked with, but not for... basically a company I had worked with through a previous employer AND also helped out someone they had contracted with too... so I knew everything they were doing and had actually directly worked on their specific products and methods... and they would tell me "we found a better match." Finally, once I knew they were never going to hire me... I wrote a cover letter detailing my previous associations and spelled out that it was practically impossible for them to find a better match than me. I never heard from them. I decided then to stop worrying about that job and moved on!

    Whenever I'm able to talk to the actual manager for whom I would be working... they can usually instantly see I know what I'm doing and then it's just about whether my personality meshes with their existing environment. HR and third-party recruiters, in my opinion, just aren't capable of truly evaluating talent for hardly any position. They usually don't know what the job really entails or how to evaluate your relevant experience and knowledge or adaptability to see how you might actually perform in that job... and since they are the ones filtering the talent, I'm amazed anyone ever gets placed in a good compatible job these days.
     
  6. SledgeHammer

    SledgeHammer Icon

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    Yup. Even Amazon and Google don't know how to interview. I've interviewed with Amazon a bunch of times and Google once. Didn't get into either. They both don't care AT ALL about what tech you have used or know. All they care about during the interview is that you can go up on a whiteboard (online now) and write 100% perfect code with no reference material that solves the problem in the least complexity and you have 1 hr to do it. Oh, and you have to handle every single edge case where we won't even give you 90% of them.

    I have a friend who works at Amazon that only has around 5 yrs experience, so he got in at a lower level, but I asked him if he EVER writes algorithms like the interview and he said never.

    Other companies go extreme on the other side sometimes too with "trivia interviews". Oh, you're a tech writer? Quick! What's the hot key combination for importing a PDF into Adobe Illustrator 5.17? Or whatever. You get the idea. You can't memorize all the mundane details about everything, but you know you have to go into this menu and follow these 10 steps, etc.

    Then again -- all the companies that I've gotten into have had pretty easy interview processes and they've all turned out to be crap companies so maybe the tougher interviews keep the crap employees out. We've got a lot of them in my company. Not me lol... but I'm stuck babysitting a bunch of "senior developers". You'd think I'd have a lead or mgr title, but nope... got the same title as the people I'm babysitting. You can see why I'm looking. But I am trying to get into a better company this time around :).
     
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  7. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Gold Club DBSTalk Club

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    For some reason “I don’t want to belong to any club that would accept me as one of its members.” comes to mind.

    I have a job and don't want to change. I also have a standing job offer that would require a move and some risk. I have not quit a job in over 25 years ... I'll refer to my last job change as being "discarded" (the employer made an offer I could refuse). Your job is eliminated ... will you accept this new job? Uh, no.

    I have a co-worker who is very much in favor of testing new employees. I believe his test is fair - what he asks should be basic knowledge for the level of job offered - but it is a brutal test. No one breezes through despite their (alleged) years of experience doing the job they are applying for. I see it as a lie detector and how do you handle stress test. I believe that it would be possible to fail on the knowledge but still pass scrutiny if they handled themselves well during the test.
     
  8. SledgeHammer

    SledgeHammer Icon

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    I wouldn't move for a job, that's way too risky and too expensive. I don't think I've ever quit a post-college job either lol... I've been laid off from all of them. Going back to that crappy company comment ;).

    If I was interviewing a software engineer, I'd ask them to design something on the white board. Does it have to be perfect or the most efficient, no? but if they do a lot of stupid stuff then you don't hire them. I think a good interview has to be representative of the day to day.

    Since this is the first time I'm interviewing while having a job, I'm definitely paying attention to how the interviewers act. If somebody gave me a "brutal test", I'd probably just walk because it probably represents how the day to day will be.

    Now that I'm interviewing, I actually did think about what I would ask if I was interviewing somebody. I'd probably ask some "trivia" type questions about the dev framework, but stuff that you'd actually know from normal day to day usage. Not something obscure that you touch once when you create a project and then never look at again.

    I've always thought that if I wanted to ask a design question, I'd ask "if you were building a DVR, how would you store the guide data?" and see what they come up with :). I'll assume there is probably an industry standard way of doing it which I don't know... but its a good way to see if they can think of all the stuff that goes into guide data.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2020
  9. SledgeHammer

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    Ahh... the recruiter fun continues. A recruiter contacts me about a company I was very interested in because it was a good brand name tech company. I had already taken a programming assessment with the recruiters agency. The hiring manager sends me yet another programming test (90 minutes). 3 programming assignments. I got the first two right and missed the 3rd as the question wasn't very clear. Was asking the recruiter if the company expects 100% on all 3 to move to the next round and she starts asking me about what the questions were. Really? Why would I help the next guy get the job? Nobody helped me. Sheesh. I just responded back with "it was 3 programming tasks".

    EDIT: she didn't like my "3 programming tasks" answers and is probing me for more info. Ugh... I'm just going to make stuff up lol. I can't really ignore her because I still need her til I find a job.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2020
  10. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Like the interviews, the testing processes lack something to be desired as well. Mind you, I haven't really gone through one myself in a while, but from the conversations I gather similar things are true still.

    I don't do a lot of things with hot-keys myself. A handful, but not everything like a lot of people seem to... also, there are some tasks you do all the time and other times you might do rarely. Some jobs you might use certain aspects of tools and not at all other aspects... then your next job you use some of those others more frequently. On an actual job, though, you don't have to do all this stuff blindly or by memorization. Whenever something comes up that is entirely new to you or just something you're rusty on... you can pop into a Web browser and do a quick search for "how to blah blah" and if you're any good at your job, you can assimilate (or refresh) that skill in a matter of minutes. BUT, when you're doing their test... you can't do that.... which is unnecessarily handcuffing you in a way you'll never be restricted on the actual job. In my opinion, knowing where to go to quickly find the information is just as important as being able to go a thing on the fly. They usually don't test for that.

    I routinely either am tasked to do a thing OR come up with an idea on my own that I'm curious if it can actually be done easily... and I'll spend a few minutes researching, then practicing, then implementing. Being able to efficiently research is a necessary skill for most jobs that never really gets explored on the pre-screening stuffs.
     

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