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Keep until I delete

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by gnewsome, Nov 2, 2011.

  1. Nov 2, 2011 #1 of 29
    gnewsome

    gnewsome New Member

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    I recently "upgraded" to HR24 and the "keep until I delete" and maximum number of shows logic is quite different from what I am used to on my old R10.

    I expect the logic to stop recording once the maximum count has been reached, however what happens is that the "keep until I delete" is ignored and the box records practically all the time.

    I saw a thread on this wrt R15 from way back in 2006.

    Does anyone know of a way to force the HR24 to stop recording once the max show count is reached?

    Thanks,

    George
     
  2. Nov 2, 2011 #2 of 29
    Laxguy

    Laxguy Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense.

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    Winters,...
    Welcome, George!

    Maybe I am not understanding your dilemma, but each series you set up has a setting to choose how many shows to keep, whether you want just first runs, etc. Is the set overriding those, or is the default to keep a lot and you haven't set the individual series to the number you want?
     
  3. Nov 2, 2011 #3 of 29
    gnewsome

    gnewsome New Member

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    The season pass is set to "keep max 3 until I delete."
    The box does indeed keep three, however it overwrites the oldest show it recorded with a new one, so it ignores the keep until I delete. That means that the box is almost continuously recording something.

    If I wanted that behavior, I would set "keep max 3, delete as space required."

    Thanks,

    George
     
  4. Nov 2, 2011 #4 of 29
    Stuart Sweet

    Stuart Sweet The Shadow Knows!

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    It's true, you're accurately describing the Keep behavior. In my opinion it's a matter of labeling.

    You can use the blue button to manually keep a recording, then it will not be deleted.
     
  5. Nov 2, 2011 #5 of 29
    Laxguy

    Laxguy Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense.

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    Ah, I see. I believe, though, that that is expected behavior. You'll have to change a setting to keep more shows, or watch 'em sooner! :D
     
  6. Nov 2, 2011 #6 of 29
    inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    If you mark it delete as space is needed, then any recording could in theory erase the shows, where when you have keep until I delete set, only a newer showing of that same program can record over an existing recording, keeping the latest number of episodes of the show. It's been debated which way is better, and there is no consensus among the masses. Directv choose this way. What show is it that's recording all the time? Maybe there's a way around.
     
  7. Nov 2, 2011 #7 of 29
    EyeRonik1

    EyeRonik1 Mentor

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    I use this feature all the time on my TiVo. There are shows that run all the time in reruns that I'd like to have a few around. I don't want them recording all the time, so if I limit it to 3, it records 3 and stops.

    This is one of the many many things TiVo got right and DirecTV got wrong. I'm glad my HR-250 is still chugging along.
     
  8. Nov 2, 2011 #8 of 29
    Laxguy

    Laxguy Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense.

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    There's nothing wrong with how DIRECTV® has it set in this regard. You don't like it.

    I am also thinking that re-runs wouldn't suffer the delete the oldest to make room for the new show that current series do. (Er, that's a question!)
     
  9. Nov 2, 2011 #9 of 29
    dbronstein

    dbronstein Hall Of Fame

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    I completely disagree. I much prefer having it do it the DirecTV way. The issue is they need to explain it better, and they should give an option for how you would like it handled.
     
  10. TomCat

    TomCat Broadcast Engineer

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    Well, if the DVR behaves in a way you don't like, that is "wrong" for you; from your point of view. On the other hand, it may be doing exactly what it is supposed to do from the programmers' point of view, so is not wrong for them. Now if the current DVR were designed by the brilliant crew that gave us ReplayTV, it would probably be working the way you want it to, as that is the way things worked in that world. Problem is, it isn't.

    But then no one should expect it to conform to their particular idea of how it should work; that is unless the ergonomics sensibilities of the creators allow them to be both clever and gracious enough to take that into account and allow expanded user preferences, which is one of the ways Apple grew from two hippies in a garage to the highest valued company in the USA.

    So as you might have guessed, I am a big fan of the UI having user-adjustable preferences instead of a conventionally-arrogant "one-size-fits-all" monolithic approach. While there are down sides to that, generally speaking I think it would make a product more appealing and useful to the user, which is probably a good and effective way to grow your business and lower churn rates.

    DirecTV obviously believes in something quite opposite of that. But then nobody is writing a book about the CEO of DirecTV that will sell 382,000 copies in the first week, either.
     
  11. cadet502

    cadet502 FHNSAB DBSTalk Club

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    This used to be my biggest beef with the HR when I first got it. (pages and pages in the thread in my sig.) I was bothered by the use of tuners to record an un-needed "filler" show when there were already 5 recorded. Once MRV came around and I got to 4 HR's I could spread recordings around it is not the problem it used to be. It still annoys me, and I wish we had some choice and flexiblility in the settings, but it's not enough to make we want the new tivo version.



    .
     
  12. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    IMHO, it's better to miss something in the middle than miss the end, and therefore directv got it more right than TiVo, but a choice between the two options would be best IMHO.
     
  13. bobcamp1

    bobcamp1 Icon

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    The answer is, "usually", which is why D*'s way is wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. Even if you set it up to record first-run only, if the guide data is incomplete, and the channel decides to have a marathon of repeats, all your new episodes will be replaced with the repeats. This is by far the most common scenario that happens, and many have been burnt by this.

    It's not really keep until I delete, it's more like stating which series link recordings should be deleted last if the DVR runs out of room. There are two workarounds:

    1. Specify it record 10 or more episodes for that link. They usually don't put more than 10 episodes in a marathon. Other series links' shows will get bumped, but they ALL can't be the most important show.

    2. The moment a new episode records, go in and individually select that episode keep until I delete by pressing the blue button. (You have to remember to do this). That should flag it a true KUID instead of the regular "KUID" (though I think the icon for both functions is the same).

    The other workaround which works on Tivo doesn't work with an HR2x. If you individually set a specific program that already has a series link to record, it'll get treated just like the others in that link. With Tivo, that episode is separate from the season pass, so it's not subject to any of the the season pass settings.
     
  14. bobcamp1

    bobcamp1 Icon

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    Very true. One is a bug, and the other is a design flaw. But both result in missed recordings, which is all the end user cares about.

    If I designed a car where the brake and gas pedals were switched, that's not a bug. It's a design flaw. But I don't think people would like my car.
     
  15. raott

    raott Hall Of Fame

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    It is both poorly named (ie the "I" in keep until I delete ) and is a poor implementation. Have a show set to catch re-runs and there is a marathon, ie what happens all the time with kids shows, it will record episode after episode, all day, whether they are watched or not.

    Tivo had it named right and implemented right.
     
  16. Laxguy

    Laxguy Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense.

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    Some of these complaints are due to shows being miscoded as to type.
     
  17. Drew2k

    Drew2k New Member

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    I prefer DIRECTV's implementation, as it lets me set to Keep At Most 1 for the nightly news and it keeps only the most recent showing.

    The implementation is different than other DVRs, but it has its benefits.
     
  18. raott

    raott Hall Of Fame

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    Which can be accomplished by simply setting up a season pass for the evening news and keeping at most 1 episode.

    In D*'s implementation, they are almost exactly the same, except when disk space is running out. This is why the way Tivo did KUID, is better IMO. It was different than KAM.

    But its been that way for years and I don't expect it to change.
     
  19. Diana C

    Diana C Hall Of Fame DBSTalk Club

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    In my opinion....

    Setting up a "Series Link" (or "Season Pass" as it is called on TiVo) and setting a limit of 3 episodes and then designing that to record the next 3 episodes and stop is a contradiction in terms. If you ONLY want the next 3 episodes it is not a Series Link, it is a simply recording 3 events.

    It seems to me to make more sense to do it the way DirecTV does it. Suppose I like to have a handful of "Law and Order" episodes around, so I set up a "Series Link" with a max episodes of, say, 5. This way I would always have the 5 most recently broadcast episodes and the "no duplicate" rule would make sure that the same episode doesn't show up twice within 30 days.

    In DirecTV's lexicon, Keep Until I Delete means "don't delete to make space for new recordings even is it is the oldest recording and I have already watched it because I absolutely want to keep it around".

    That is completely different than "Keep at most"
     
  20. raott

    raott Hall Of Fame

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    A series link doesn't stop recording. It continues to record. I have a series link for many daily shows. The max to keep is 5. It records the new shows daily, which is exactly what it is suppose to do.

    If I set up the same link and told it to "keep until I delete", it would do the EXACT same thing as I just described. It would keep 5 episodes and continue to record new ones. There is no differentiation between the two until the disk is full. With TIVO, the two options were completely different.

    "I" means "I", it does not mean don't delete to make space.
     

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