KTVN in Negotiations with DISH

Discussion in 'General DISH™ Discussion' started by Blowgun, Jan 2, 2016.

  1. Jan 2, 2016 #1 of 19

    Blowgun DHMO User

    May 23, 2008
    Western Arc
    Here we go again. They want more money. DISH has until 11PM on January 8th to please Frankly Media and Sarkes Tarzian, Inc. I don't have time at the moment, but when I return I'll type up what the commercial reads. The commercial has a blue background and a narrator reading the white text. They went all out to convince the DMA they are worth more by throwing together, I mean producing, such a high quality commercial.

    Thankfully the blackout won't affect me in the slightest, except for a higher bill.
  2. Jan 2, 2016 #2 of 19

    Blowgun DHMO User

    May 23, 2008
    Western Arc
    Here is verbatim what the commercial says. Again, blue background and a narrator reading the white text that is scrolling upward.

    Attention Dish Network Satellite TV subscribers:

    KTVN and DISH have been negotiating a new carriage agreement. We are hopeful a new agreement will be reached, but, unfortunately, the negotiations appear to have reached an impasse and our contract with DISH has expired.

    We have granted DISH an extension through January 8th. If you are a DISH subscriber we want to make you aware that if we are unable to reach a new agreement, as of 11PM January 8th, KTVN's top-rated programs including CBS, the NFL and Channel 2 News will no longer be available via the Dish satellite TV service.

    We are asking DISH to pay KTVN a small fraction of what DISH pays for other significantly less popular program services. In fact, for much less popular programming, DISH pays four times what KTVN is asking for its highly rated programming.

    We will keep you informed of the status of the negotiations. KTVN will, of course, continue to be available free, over the air, and also through local cable companies and through DIRECTV satellite service. Please plan accordingly.
  3. Jan 2, 2016 #3 of 19

    peds48 Genius.

    Jan 10, 2008
    I would love to see the numbers to see who are the liars on these negotiations.

    Sent from my iPad Pro using Tapatalk
  4. Jan 2, 2016 #4 of 19

    RBA Well-Known Member

    Apr 14, 2013
    Past history says it will disappear for only a couple days or in extreme cases months. Just get/connect your OTA antenna.
  5. Jan 3, 2016 #5 of 19
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Gold Club DBSTalk Club

    Apr 17, 2003
    There are rarely liars ... usually it is a case of the sides having a different expression of the truth.

    For example, a channel charging 20c per subscriber per month asks the carrier for 60c per month. The channel says that they only want a few cents per day. The carrier says the channel wants a 200% increase. No one is lying.

    I do not know what "less popular" programming KTVN is claiming DISH is paying four times as much for. Such details are rarely spelled out (negotiations are generally confidential - so the exact fee being asked for will not be openly stated). KTVN is a CBS affiliate so they are likely asking for more than most channels on DISH. Perhaps the "less popular" channel is a sports network ... they usually get the higher payments.
  6. Jan 3, 2016 #6 of 19

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

    Nov 13, 2006
    It's a lie the moment anyone with an over the air stations says they just want to be paid fairly. We already all paid them by giving them the billions of dollars of airwaves for free in exchange for them agreeing to broadcast to us for free.
  7. Jan 3, 2016 #7 of 19
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Gold Club DBSTalk Club

    Apr 17, 2003
    The stations do broadcast for free ... but they are not required to allow retransmission for free. If you want free buy an antenna and OTA tuner.

    BTW: Commercial TV stations pay regulatory fees. In 2015 the fee ranged from $4,850 to $46,825 depending on the market size. Not much of a fee compared to their other expenses, but still a payment for using the airwaves. There are additional fees for applications (for renewals, modifications and completion of modifications) that the stations pay on a per event basis. Non-commercial stations are not charged fees, but they also cannot charge for carriage and are considered "must carry" stations by default.
  8. Jan 5, 2016 #8 of 19

    tampa8 Godfather/Supporter

    Mar 30, 2002
    For me that's not the point. If a few of the Cable companies/DISH/DIrect refused to carry any of the Networks where would the Networks be then? In Boston NBC is leaving it's affiliate on a strong channel (7 WHDH) and going to one weaker. Why they are leaving not important for this discussion, but the rationale that they can do it? Because the by far majority get their signal over Cable. (To be fair there is a RI NBC also however it also does not reach well some of the same areas the new NBC 60 won't)
    The flip side is Cable/Sat needs the networks LIL too, DISH realized that and established that first all those years ago when they spearheaded getting FCC rules to allow it. I don't really want new FCC rules and regs, but if I did it would be that Cable and Sat must carry the locals, (Not what we have now carry one carry all) and that it will be a neutral cost. The charge to the consumer can't be more than the approximate cost to the network to get the signal to the provider, or the cost to the provider to carry it. In most cases it should be a set cost probably per market. Otherwise drop OTA and join the Cable channel ecosystem.
  9. Jan 5, 2016 #9 of 19

    mitchflorida Godfather

    May 18, 2009
    DTV gets zero ad revenue from carrying the broadcast channels, butthey get lots of advertising money from the various cable channels,like Fox News and ESPN. KTVN of course doesn't mention that in their press release.
  10. karrank%

    karrank% AllStar

    Sep 20, 2009
    We're getting the same treatment with KSBY out here in the sticks. Figure that includes KSBW or whatever it is in Salinas? We switched to OTA while we're still in dish pause so doesn't affect us, but interesting news anyway
  11. BobCulp

    BobCulp Member

    Dec 21, 2013
    Whats the common denominator here: NBC any network ; One local or all are threatened?

    I just heard tonight that Dish may drop Colorado Springs NBC affiliate KOAA Tomorrow January 7th. KOAA is asking customers to tell Dish, that if Dish goes ahead of the threat to drop KOAA , That I and other viewers should tell Dish that we will drop DISH.

    I am not given enough time to find a best way to contact DISH on this issue. I remember doing this late 2014 for Fox News. Then KOAA did go off the air from Dish last year, so why aren't there multi-year contracts with DISH and locals?
    I am urging All professional sports leagues to drop locals and go strictly cable forever. I am getting ticked off missing a NFL playoff game 2 years in a row, thanks to NBC local not being on DISH at wrong time of year.
  12. KyL416

    KyL416 Hall Of Fame

    Nov 10, 2005
    Tobyhanna, PA
    That pretty much already happened with every sport except NFL. Why don't you ask the Lakers, Trailblazers, Rockets, Astros, Phillies, Flyers, 76ers, Dodgers, Mets, Knicks, Rangers, Devils, Islanders, Sabres, Yankees, Nets and/or Celtics fans how well that went for them.

    You think disputes are bad now? Imagine how much more money the RSNs or channels like FX, USA, TNT or Spike would be asking for if they had the NFL rights. Heck, Discovery now has a sports brand in Europe, they might bring those resources here and launch their own if it means they can get the NFL rights.
  13. Blowgun

    Blowgun DHMO User

    May 23, 2008
    Western Arc
    It is now after 11 PM on January 8th and KTVN is still on DISH. Up to this point they ran several commercials and crawlers with the previously mentioned text. Now they are dead quiet about the status of the carriage agreement negotiations. Starting at 10:59 PM I recorded KTVN for 3 hours and then scanned the recording, nothing. Not a peep on-air. However, there is one small mention of DISH in the "Headlines" section of the KTVN website that was last updated on January 8th at 5:21 PM that says the following:

    DISH Subscriber Information Guide

    KTVN and the DISH Network have been in extensive negotiations over several weeks for continued carriage of KTVN’s CBS programming on the DISH satellite service.

    11:00 p.m. Monday January 11th is now the deadline to complete a new agreement between KTVN and Dish satellite TV service. Significant progress in negotiations for continued carriage of KTVN’s CBS programming on the DISH satellite service has led to this positive action.

    To be clear, there will be no disruption of KTVN’s CBS programming before 11:00 p.m. Monday January 11th 2016. The NFL Playoff game will be carried without disruption on Saturday January 9th.

    It is our hope that continued negotiations will lead to a new agreement and that any disruption in carriage can be avoided. Watch this web page as we will use it to keep you informed of the progress of the negotiations. Thank you for watching KTVN and thank you for your support.

    It seems that when the negotiations had "reached an impasse" and the "contract with DISH [had] expired" KTVN aired daily several commercials and crawlers over "top-rated programs", but now everyone has to go and find a link on their website for the status of the negotiations. I guess it was too much to expect that the same method that they used up until the deadline would be again used to inform their viewers after the deadline.

    Since KTVN is the one in control of the deadline and with that update getting posted 5 hours beforehand, they had plenty of time to throw together, I mean produce, the same high quality commercial they made last time. Although, the deadline did fall on a Friday and the update was made after 5 PM. Still, they could have made the commercial days before since they knew when the next deadline would happen. Maybe something will be thrown together, I mean produce, on Monday.

    What is more likely is that they didn't want to burn another commercial slot for their needs and lose ad revenue. And like what a lot of stations do these days instead providing on-air updates they direct people to their website or worse, use the social media excuse.

    On the Blowgun Scale of 1-5, with 5 being the worst, at this time I give KTVN 2 darts in the neck.
  14. Blowgun

    Blowgun DHMO User

    May 23, 2008
    Western Arc
    In case anyone is interested, here is the DISH FAQ from KTVN:
    • Why has DISH threatened to stop retransmitting KTVN’s signal and CBS’ programming?
      The contract for carriage of KTVN by DISH expired on December 19th —but KTVN has given DISH an extension, which expires at 11pm on January 8th, in the hope that negotiations for a new carriage contract will eventually be successful.

    • Why is DISH threatening to stop carrying KTVN and CBS?
      DISH has refused to pay KTVN a fair price and agree to other reasonable terms for the right to resell KTVN’s CBS signal to its subscribers.

    • But isn’t DISH only trying to hold down the price it pays KTVN to have CBS in its line up and, in turn, keep down the price it charges its subscribers?
      It is, of course, appropriate for DISH to minimize the price it pays for all programming. However, DISH, reportedly, pays some program companies about four times more for less popular program services than the price we are asking for KTVN and its more popular CBS programming. In fact, DISH, a multi-billion dollar company, is basically demanding that KTVN subsidize its operations to enable it to pay more for other programming services with whom KTVN directly competes. It would be irresponsible for us to subsidize DISH’s cost of operation and grant it the special financial benefits it is demanding.

    • But aren’t you just asking DISH for more money to enhance your profits?
      No. The price we have to pay CBS and all of our program suppliers for highly rated sports and entertainment programming has been driven up significantly because pay TV companies like DISH are paying program suppliers higher rates in competition with us to try to buy the best programs as well.

    • The upshot though is that DISH will raise rates for its subscribers if it pays you more, will it not?
      No. DISH does not have to raise its subscriber rates in order to pay us a fair and competitive market rate for our programming. DISH could—and should—simply pay less for the less popular channels that it buys and then forces you, as a subscriber, to buy—many of which you do not watch and would not buy if DISH gave you a choice.

    • Will DISH reduce our monthly bill if it is no longer offering KTVN and CBS?
      It should, of course. But that is DISH’s decision; we have no control over it—you might want to ask DISH.

    • Is DISH’s offer to KTVN for CBS consistent with today’s market rates for broadcast stations?
      No. DISH’s offer is significantly below what its competitors pay for the right to mark up the price they pay and resell KTVN’s programming. The rates we charge companies like DISH for the right to resell our programming are based on local competitive market conditions.

    • So, as a DISH subscriber, how can I continue to receive KTVN and CBS and not miss my favorite program?
      You can receive KTVN free, over-the-air or you can cancel your satellite service from DISH and receive KTVN and its CBS programming and other program services from your local cable company, depending on where you live, or from the DIRECTV satellite service.

    • What can I do to make sure DISH keeps KTVN and CBS on the satellite?
      We have told DISH that our executives are available to resolve the impasse and work to assure that its subscribers continue to have access to their favorite CBS sports, entertainment, local news, weather and public service programming from our Station. You may wish to express your concern to DISH and ask DISH to restore KTVN and CBS and treat all of us in this community fairly and equitably. We deeply regret the inconvenience DISH’s actions have caused.

    Note: I had to trick the forum software to add spaces as it kept removing and/or making wrong modifications on its own, which I then had to repair. One dart to the neck of the forum software. ;)
  15. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    Jan 7, 2005
    Kittrell, NC
    I always love how stations answer those questions... "Will Dish raise my rates?" and the answer "They don't have to." So... why not turn that around... why is the TV station asking for an increase in their rates? Why don't they go back to the network and other places they cite as reasons why they need to ask for a raise and decline to pay more there?

    They should just be honest... they want more money. Dish doesn't want to pay more... so the haggle and meet somewhere in the middle eventually. It's nonsense to try and act like Dish shouldn't raise your rates to pay the station more OR that Dish should pay them more but pay others less instead. The station could just fire a few people, right? I mean, they probably do that anyway... then don't cut their asking price after they've let some workers go to increase their profits too.
    1 person likes this.
  16. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

    Nov 13, 2006
    So true.
  17. Blowgun

    Blowgun DHMO User

    May 23, 2008
    Western Arc
    It's after 11 PM on January 11th and KTVN is still available through DISH Network. The above KTVN page that said to, "Watch this web page as we will use it to keep you informed of the progress of the negotiations" as of a few minutes ago returns a, "The page you requested is currently unavailable" type message. A search on the KTVN website turned up nothing. As of the time of this post, Google says the page was still available 16 hours ago.
  18. SayWhat?

    SayWhat? Know Nothing

    Jun 6, 2009
  19. Blowgun

    Blowgun DHMO User

    May 23, 2008
    Western Arc
    These aren't the droids you're looking for....

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