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Lance Armstrong banned for life,stripped of 7 Tour wins.

Discussion in 'Sports Programming and Events' started by yosoyellobo, Aug 24, 2012.

  1. dpeters11

    dpeters11 Hall Of Fame

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    Of course French cyclists were doping as well.

    More companies have dropped Armstrong or will when contracts run out, including Trek, Giro, 24 hour Fitness, Honey Stinger (which he owns part of) among others. Petty much all of them say they'll continue to support Livestrong.
     
  2. kikkenit2

    kikkenit2 Icon

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    Armstrong's boss during all those years, Johan Bruyneel just got fired
    from the Radio Shack team.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...c12e86-148a-11e2-9a39-1f5a7f6fe945_story.html

    Greg Lemond still strongly claims he was clean when he won the tour.
    If so he was probably the only clean winner in 40 years.
    And they didn't have near as much drug testing back then.

    I hope no tour winner ever tests positive again.
    All the recent winners tested positive at some point.
    My advice to Lance. Never admit fault and don't give them
    a dna sample. Oh wait that was Clinton.:lol:
     
  3. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    That wouldn't surprise me... I mean, I gather the sport has been "dirty" for a while.

    Where I think an apology is owed, though... is all the people who accused the French of being against Armstrong out of jealousy.

    With the cat pretty much out of the bag... all the people accused of only being anti-Armstrong out of jealousy are owed an apology in my opinion.

    I'll even go first... because I was a pro-Armstrong guy at the time... and I too thought the French were just mad because an American was winning "their" sport... so, knowing what we appear to know now... I apologize for the ill will I had at the time in thinking that they were just jealous. It appears there was fire where there was smoke.
     
  4. kikkenit2

    kikkenit2 Icon

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    I meant to say the last 40 years. A quick wiki check of history shows the french
    had a lot of reason to be jealous of american riders winning their race.
    From 1977 to 1985 france dominated the yellow jersey winning every year but one.
    Lemond should have won in 85, but french rider Bernard Hinault wouldn't let him due to team rules.

    Greg L. won the next year over french rider Laurent Fignon by 8 seconds on the last day!
    Fignon had already won twice, but wiki says he admitted using amphetamines and steroids(cortizone)
    on his death bed. Hinault still runs the tour and his legs were like an elephant. Thick!
    If Lemond didn't get shot in a hunting accident he would have won lot more than 3 tours.

    Then eventually Armstrong comes along and breaks all the records.
    Amazingly saved from race ending crashes seven years straight!
    If that doesn't make them jealous I don't know what could.

    Then Floyd Landis comes along and dominates the end of the next race
    only to test positive for cortizone? We are lucky they even let americans
    in that race after all that. Most of france respects Armstrong doping or not.
    So basically no french rider has won since drug testing started.
     
  5. sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    That's me...I thought it was jealousy. Not just from France, but from everyone who lost. I was wrong.
     
  6. Brandon Wedgeworth

    Brandon Wedgeworth Administrator Staff Member Administrator DBSTalk Gold Club

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    As a two time testicular cancer survivor, I can honestly say that I'm much more concerned with all the good that Lance Armstrong has done through LIVESTRONG than what he did or didn't do with regards to doping. Looking at the so called "evidence", it still consists almost entirely of testimony from other people. Third party (eye witness) testimony is widely agreed to be the least reliable form of "evidence".

    Regardless of all of that, I sincerely home that this doesn't affect LIVESTRONG too negatively in the future. It's not one of the biggest cancer related charities, but it is among the most efficient at getting donations back into cancer research.
     
  7. Sharkie_Fan

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    I tend to disagree with you here. The French leading the charge were doing so because they were jealous. There's not a doubt in my mind of that. That they were chasing down a guilty man is irrelevant, IMO.

    They weren't chasing down Lance because they wanted to clean up the sport. They were chasing down Lance because they disliked him.

    I don't think it's a stretch to say that 90% of the field was doing SOMETHING against the rules. It's not an uncommon practice to wear a testosterone patch after a grueling stage to help recover before the next stage. Not long enough to elevate your blood test, but long enough to "take the edge off". (At least that's the theory. I don't know if it actually works or not). Everybody knows it happens, but if you don't fail a test, then it's no harm, no foul.

    From the sound of it, Lance's regimen may have been more sophisticated than some of the others... but they were all cheating. Lance is the poster boy for that generation of cheaters because the French hate him and they've been dying to catch him at something for years.

    What's happening to Lance today is like a teacher who knows that the entire class got the answers to the test before hand... and instead of punishing the whole group, singles out the person who got the highest score and flunks only that student while the rest of the class gets the grade they "earned".

    Yes, they caught a cheater. But they're ignoring the other 150+ racers who were all cheating with him.
     
  8. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    I don't disagree with the sentiment... but the only way to do that?

    Shut down ALL professional sports today. Wait several years and start up again with a new crop of YOUNG people who have been rigorously tested for years.

    I'm pretty sure that's not going to happen.

    So... you can never get all the cheating out. All you can do is catch the ones you catch and hope others will stop on their own.
     
  9. hdtvfan0001

    hdtvfan0001 Well-Known Member

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    Sadl but ture...your assessment is spot on right.

    The whole thing is a shame on multiple fronts - the sport, the fans, and the other partipants.
     
  10. dpeters11

    dpeters11 Hall Of Fame

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    The fallout expands...Rabobank, a very large cycling team sponsor for the last 17 years from The Netherlands, a big cycling country, has dropped all support for sponsorships. They are including dropping support for women's cycling, so some question whether they used it as a reason for a business decision.
     
  11. Sharkie_Fan

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    That's the problem though, Stewart. I don't believe that this was an attempt to 'get the cheaters' as much as it was an endeavour to 'get Lance'.

    Did he cheat? Yes. Was this a fair and impartial investigation aimed at cleaning up the sport as a whole? Not a chance.

    I believe we will continue to see winners, leaders, participants, etc, caught cheating at the same rate they are now. Cycling will once again turn a blind eye to the cheating, IMO.
     
  12. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    The thing is... you can say that about anyone caught doing anything... and it may even be true... but when a problem is as pervasive as everyone thinks it is... there's no way to get rid of ALL the people cheating at one time. You can only catch the ones you catch and move forward.

    The world seems to have adopted the mindset that "it isn't cheating if you don't get caught"... so... as long as there are people, there will be people trying to get around rules and take risks to win... especially when the penalty for getting caught isn't worse than the rewards of getting away with it.
     
  13. dpeters11

    dpeters11 Hall Of Fame

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    Considered putting this in the TV reminders thread but thought if just put it here. My guide isn't updated, but he will be doing a "no holds barred" 90 minute interview with the tough and hard hitting Oprah on OWN, January 17 at 9 EST.
     
  14. Lord Vader

    Lord Vader Supreme Member DBSTalk Club

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    After learning how this guy was downright methodical in his destroying ANYone who dared to accuse him of doping, and of the manner in which he did dope, I think Armstrong is an absolute total piece of sh*t, nothing less than human debris. He ought to be shunned by everyone for life.

    He lied to everyone, including his charity, which was a sham itself. What a scumbag this guy is.
     
  15. sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    It hurts to type this... I agree with LV. ;)
     
  16. Lord Vader

    Lord Vader Supreme Member DBSTalk Club

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    There's hope for you yet, my young apprentice.
     
  17. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Funny... I had the same thought :)

    But, yeah... Vader nailed it here.

    The actual cheating could have been defensible back then... even his early denials...

    But, that he didn't just deny it... Lance Armstrong vilified anyone who dared accuse him... chastising, ruining reputations, and suing people AND winning!

    That type of arrogance, to me, trumps all the drug charges... in fact, you can be sure the only reason he would be "repenting" now is because he knows it is he only way to keep living the high life to which he has become accustomed.

    I feel sorry for anyone he trampled on, anyone who trusted/believed in him, and the people at his charity that really wanted to help cancer patients.

    Armstrong even used to play the "I had cancer" card when people attacked him for doing drugs... hard to be much lower if you ask me.
     
  18. djlong

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    I wouldn't be so quick to call his charity a sham.

    Unless you're talking about the act of creating it being an attempt to salve his conscience.. THAT I could agree with - but from everything I've heard, the charity itself is reputable.
     
  19. yosoyellobo

    yosoyellobo Icon

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    Does the end justified the mean. Not in this case. If he is taken to the cleaners by all those that been damage by his action so be it.
     
  20. Lord Vader

    Lord Vader Supreme Member DBSTalk Club

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    A charity that spends in excess of 40 cents to collect a dollar is not a reputable charity, IMHO.
     

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