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Local PBS in HD

Discussion in 'DISH™ High Definition Discussion' started by nmetro, Jun 25, 2009.

  1. nmetro

    nmetro Godfather

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    Jul 11, 2006
    I would, but thanks to hills, mountains and valleys an outdoor antenna does not reach this far out (over 40 miles between transmission source with obstructions). It is for this reason why I subscribe to satellite, as the local cable company does not offer a number of channels which are available on DISH Network.

    As for the "Joe Sixpack" comment. Because people either receive their signals through digital converters, directly from the station over the air, via cable or satellite; they all have the capability to size the screen the way they want to. So, the need for what you call "centercut" is not necessary. Also, it looks like DISH Network is doing the "centercutting" according to my PBS affiliate.
     
  2. scooper

    scooper Hall Of Fame

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    "Centercut" is not being done on HD channels being shown as HD. It's being done on HD channels downconverted to 4:3 SD. I can see it being done on MY Dish locals - all of them - that are "HD" on their primary channel. I'll have to take a look on the CW, but I'm pretty sure about the rest.
     
  3. scooper

    scooper Hall Of Fame

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    Sorry for your hill problem - but you knew what you were getting.

    That is EXACTLY what I'm saying - Dish asked the stations how they wanted their SD feeds presented - the STATIONS said "Centercut" - so that's how Dish processes them before they send them to uplink - Dish receives the DTV in HD, then using their ATSC tuners/other processing gear, they set them to the option the station wanted . If you ask your local TV station engineers, I'd expect them to say pretty much the same thing (details perhaps different). It's also possible that some stations took other options.
     
  4. nmetro

    nmetro Godfather

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    Knew what i was getting? I have been a subscriber for over 10 years and no where did DISH, or anyone else, ever mentioned that satellite and cable providers will be taking 16x9 pictures, "centercutting" the picture and filling the screen as if it were 4:3 broadcast. This maneuver is actually changing an over the air broadcast; option from broadcasters or not.

    What I thought (and probably others) would get after the conversion was letterboxed on those channels DISH chose not to uplink in HD; this would have been at least an acceptable compromise. DISH Network should give the customer the option on how to size the picture on the screen; DISH should just be passing the signals through, unchanged.

    It is bad enough that they insert commercials on cable channels (especially some annoying ones over and over again), but to change the picture and using an excuse that the station said they wanted "centercut" goes beyond words. What make matters worse they don't need to do it because virtually everybody has the capability of resizing a picture with digital converters, HDTVs, satellite converters and cable converters. Oh, I guess having to educate people on how to use their equipment is more difficult/expensive than cropping off 1/3 of the picture and making it look blurry in the process. And the broadcasters, as long as people see their commercials and make money; that is all they care about, because they know they have a monopoly.
     
  5. scooper

    scooper Hall Of Fame

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    Look - you have a problem with the stations wanting to give you "Centercut instead of letterbox ? - Go on a letterwriting campaign to THEM, saying you want letterbox instead of centercut. Better get lots of other viewers with you as well - I figure 10% of the market would at least get them to pay attention. In fact, instead of letterbox - get them to properly do AFD .

    Dish is NOT your villian here - its YOUR LOCAL BROADCASTERS !
     
  6. 4bama

    4bama Godfather

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    Aug 6, 2006
    I enjoy the HD feeds as much as anyone, however we also have a 508 still connected to 4 old TV's around the house that have no capability for screen size options.

    The single PBS signal ( in HD or SD) is transmitted to DISH and they have to do something to it for the older receivers (like our 508) to receive standard SD signals and display them on old TV sets on either ch-3 or ch-4. So Dish will transmit the same SD signal to both HD receivers (like the 622/722) and to the older SD receivers like the 508...

    It's difficult to please everyone...Now I agree that OTA signals could be handled differently by the 622/722, but not the Dish-delivered signals...
     
  7. scooper

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  8. HarveyLA

    HarveyLA Legend

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    Jun 8, 2006
    As mentioned in my post #13 on this thread- According to the web site of PBS station KCET Los Angeles:

    The commercial networks use a different technique in the editing of their programs for broadcast. It is called "Center Crop." The Center Crop technique eliminates the "Letterbox" style, which is used by PBS.

    You may think that letterbox on SD is a good thing, but unless it is adjustable, 4x3 programs will be shrunk, and letterboxed on all four sides. That is the current problem with KCET. In theory, there is an automatic signal that can tell the provider (such as Dish Network) when to letterbox and when to do non-letterbox (for 4x3 programs) but KCET indicated they are not technically able to do this until the get a fiber link to Dish and other providers. Two other PBS stations in the L.A. area on Dish apparently do have that capability.
    The only way to manually choose one style over the other is with an off-the air converter or other digital receiver. This is just one more reason why the lack of PBS Locals in HD is maddening!
     

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  9. HarveyLA

    HarveyLA Legend

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    After the previous post, I decided to check KCET again, and much to my surprise, the problem has apparently been solved. 4X3 programs now fill the screen from top to bottom again.
     
  10. rasheed

    rasheed Godfather

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    Sep 12, 2005
    Hello,

    I guess KCET is in SD 16:9 on Dish? Was this recent? I usually record HD on 28-1 OTA via my 722, but recorded some programs on SD recently. I noticed they were clearly full letterbox filled SD (the e/i and PBS Kids logo were 4:3 safe like many HD channels). The picture quality was very good even though I know it is not true HD.

    Is this Dish's way of trying to circumvent the HD situation since most customers would not notice? It also seems Dish is already receiving the HD feed for this example and is downgrading the resolution but keeping the picture dimensions.

    Rasheed
     
  11. scooper

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    If you are seeing any broadcasted OTA channels in Dish in SD - it's usually because Dish is taking the HD channel and downrezzing it to SD. Usually in Centercut.
     
  12. HarveyLA

    HarveyLA Legend

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    Jun 8, 2006
    the stations themselves send a signal that determines whether their sd picture is full screen or 4x3 letterbox at any given time. It can change, depending on the program.


    it's interesting that this thread from last year has suddenly reemerged near the top of the list. Anyone interested in this topic should also look at the current discussion in "Dish sues FCC over PBS-HD"
     
  13. rasheed

    rasheed Godfather

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    Sep 12, 2005
    I agree with the downrez to SD, but I do not see the centercut on KCET in Los Angeles. I wanted to make sure others also saw the same result because it seemed unexpected.

    Rasheed
     

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