Longest Cable run?

Discussion in 'DIRECTV Installation/MDU Discussion' started by iotp, Oct 15, 2010.

  1. Jun 7, 2011 #101 of 139
    geaux tigers

    geaux tigers Icon

    551
    0
    Nov 10, 2005
    Thanks, so any number below 60 doesn't really matter as long as it is below 60. The only reason I am waiting to check the connection is that the amplifier should be in any day now and that way I will have everything that I need to do the job. I still like your idea of going down to a green 4 way SWM splitter and replacing the current 2 way splitter with a green 2 way SWM splitter.

    I am hoping that I do have the 2 way splitter connected backwards or otherwise it may be back to the starting block. Would it be better to run another coax from the DECA all the way back to the splitter or does it matter regarding the DECA signal strength? Additionally, if I do this would I need to run the DECA line to the red colored output or does it matter?

    I currently have the red colored output open with nothing connected to it including a termination cap. If I stick with the green 8 way splitter and the two way splitter should I connect the DECA to that port from the HR24 or does it matter. Thanks.
     
  2. Jun 7, 2011 #102 of 139
    veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    42,740
    361
    Dec 9, 2006
    Remember to try the amp LAST and make sure not to mount it on the receiver side of the splitter.
    Few have ever had numbers higher than 60 here. I worked with the engineer handling DECA and this is where I got the specs. I then degraded my system to see what happens and the bit-rates do start dropping off above 60. [gee the guy knew what he was talking about :lol:]
    "The red" ports are only marked because they pass DC.
    You can configure DECA many ways, and some run off the first [only] splitter, while others use a second.
    What's MORE IMPORTANT is the SAT/SWiM signal losses, because these have less range than the DECA does. This is also why "your problem" is almost unique, which points fairly well to you having the splitter backwards.
    If you look back at my earlier posts, you'll see that what you're describing almost "has to be" a splitter problem, as I posted.
     
  3. Jun 7, 2011 #103 of 139
    geaux tigers

    geaux tigers Icon

    551
    0
    Nov 10, 2005
    I hope you are correct regardind the two way splitter being installed incorrectly. The amplifier on order is actually made to be installed between the receiver and the splitter as I understand it. I will check the two way spliitter before I do anything else. However, would it matter if I used the amplifier in the back bedroom since the run is so long. Thanks.
     
  4. Jun 7, 2011 #104 of 139
    veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    42,740
    361
    Dec 9, 2006
    The amp isn't going to work for DECA. If you install it between receivers, you're effectively blocking the DECA from receivers downstream of the amp from those upstream.
    Another issue with the amp may be that the DECA needs to be blocked from its output, with a bandstop filter.
    As for the 2-way being backwards: since you have two DECAs where it is [one the BB DECA and the other the HR24], the only "sensible take" on your coax test readings is that it's backwards. If it wasn't then both the BB DECA & HR24 would be reading very close to the same loss, so you'd have 2 above 60.
    "I'd guess" if you first turned the 2-way around so the input "points to" the dish/SWiM, that your 62 would become "40 something".

    "Frankly" I wouldn't even use this amp.
    If you feel that you "just need to play" with it, I'd first work on everything else and test/try everything.
    You need to do this because the amp "more that likely" will add other problems and you'll "fix one" and "create other(s)", but if you don't know this, you'll be chasing your tail [ass] and you're already having problems focusing on what your "real problem" is.
     
  5. Jun 7, 2011 #105 of 139
    lugnutathome

    lugnutathome Hall Of Fame

    3,006
    108
    Apr 13, 2009
    Woodburn, OR
    I have one of these amps in my infrastructure off the upper SWM port on my SWM16 and it serves 4 long lines (100 ft out to 191 ft) off a 4 way splitter.

    The amp is designed to drop in line between the SWM and the splitter!!! The idea is you could use an 8 way splitter after this amp and each port would have the same signal level as if direct connected to the SWM with no splitter loss.

    I cannot validate the DECA implications as my 16 serves my DVR "farm" and they are direct to Ethernet but these in line amps were in the catalog pre DECA so I'd heed VOS's warnings on that.

    Don "gonna check this though seems like it should work by now" Bolton

     
  6. Jun 7, 2011 #106 of 139
    geaux tigers

    geaux tigers Icon

    551
    0
    Nov 10, 2005
    I have stated that I appreciate the help and I guess one gets the condescending remarks as lagniappe. Some people cannot help themselves I guess. As I have stated, the first thing I will do is examine the two way splitter to make sure it is hooked up properly.

    The amplifier on order is made to be hooked up between the receiver and the splitter unless I am misunderstanding the diagram contained on the PDF manual found here:


    http://www.conversionstechnology.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=ct-sla

    If the amplifier interferes with anything then I will not use it but it is on its way and I will give it a test spin and report back here.
     
  7. Jun 7, 2011 #107 of 139
    geaux tigers

    geaux tigers Icon

    551
    0
    Nov 10, 2005
    Do you have this exact splitter? Please let me know if I am misreading the diagram. Thanks.
     
  8. Jun 7, 2011 #108 of 139
    RobertE

    RobertE Active Member

    8,024
    0
    Jun 9, 2006
    That amp isn't going to do you any good. You might as well take whatever you spent on it, lay it on your driveway and set it on fire. You'll get the same or better results.

    In essence you're trying to figure out why your car is running rough by putting more air in the tires.
     
  9. Jun 7, 2011 #109 of 139
    veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    42,740
    361
    Dec 9, 2006
    I think this can be a two way street too.
    I've tried to explain to you what the problem is, but you've also continued to look at this as a SAT/SWiM issue, which it's not. I've shown you the coax [DECA] test and you've seen the results that are out of spec.
    Now as for your link:
    If you notice it isn't approved by DirecTV and more importantly DOESN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT WORKING WITH DECA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Given what they do say about it "their diagram" makes sense.
    What they don't want the customer to do is overdrive their amp, so they position it where there already is sufficient loss so this doesn't happen and then use it before more loss so the signal to noise ratio is maintained to the receiver.
    THIS ISN'T YOUR PROBLEM!!!!!
    Now if you were getting 771s at the receiver, then it would be.

    This is the part of "the two way street" that I'm fighting with you.
    I find I need to keep dragging you back to what your problem is and discourage your wandering the wrong direction.
     
  10. Jun 7, 2011 #110 of 139
    veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    42,740
    361
    Dec 9, 2006
    :lol:
    Earlier I was thinking about trying to fix a rough running engine by installing a new front bumper. ;)
     
  11. Jun 7, 2011 #111 of 139
    geaux tigers

    geaux tigers Icon

    551
    0
    Nov 10, 2005
    If the two way splitter is installed backwards then I believe I know what the problem is.

    How do you suggest I set the amp on fire? Are you a gasoline or kerosene man? You obviously like to flame things.

    As I have stated previously I will report my results back here.

    Q: How do I something?

    A: I will tell you as long as I can be smug and try to prove to everyone how smart I am.
     
  12. Jun 7, 2011 #112 of 139
    veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    42,740
    361
    Dec 9, 2006
    Look we're here to help, but this has also gotten a bit frustrating for us too.
    I've honestly tried to find out what the problem is and explain the what, why, & what to do.
    At the same time, you have also sort of been pushing back against "us" about it.
     
  13. Jun 7, 2011 #113 of 139
    lugnutathome

    lugnutathome Hall Of Fame

    3,006
    108
    Apr 13, 2009
    Woodburn, OR
    Don't know about the exact splitter as I haven't dug into your links. I do have this exact model in line amplifier though and I installed it myself when I replaced one of my 2 SWM8s with a SWM16 for more capacity and wanted to ensure the southern wing of the Hacienda had adequate signal strengths.

    Even in discussion with the engineer at Sonora he referred to it as being in line between the SWM and the splitter. It makes the output levels on each output on an 8 way as though they were a direct connect to the SWM. As in 0 loss (in theory).

    In my case I use a 4 way splitter off this amp but I am running LONG runs (out to almost 200 ft in one case) from my splitter. My goal was as little loss as possible cause here in the Pacific Northwet we get some rains on occasion;)

    I get the tone from the true knowledge users here however that signal strength isn't so much your issue as is the DECA signal. I've pinged the engineer at Sonora to see if these amps have been revised for DECA and their documentation is behind the curve but I suspect not.

    These devices are made for us clowns with large tracts-o-land such that our residential infrastructure is really a commercial installation. And a *lot* of Sonora's business is multi occupant installations which are beyond the scope of DECA.

    Unless these have been revised to accommodate the DECA return it'll just exacerbate your problem even if you fixed your current cause you might not know it when this device doesn't pass the DECA signal back properly.

    I realize this stuff gets frustrating but relax, step back and think about what you need to do here. I think VOS can put you golden and you can return this amp for a full credit unopened.

    Don "I hate it when stuff doesn't work as expected too" Bolton

     
  14. Jun 7, 2011 #114 of 139
    lugnutathome

    lugnutathome Hall Of Fame

    3,006
    108
    Apr 13, 2009
    Woodburn, OR
    Hmm that explains why the new belt made of flight line, and the cleaning with prop wash didn't fix mine then:eek2:

    Don "time to call Bumpers-R-Us I guess" Bolton

     
  15. Jun 7, 2011 #115 of 139
    geaux tigers

    geaux tigers Icon

    551
    0
    Nov 10, 2005
    Thanks, I believe there may be some slight confusion as the amp my in-laws have on order is the one made by Conversion Technology. I will probably return the amp but I thought I would give it a test run to see what impact if it had on their system. The H24 in the back is probably around a run of 200 feet of RG6. If it passes DECA then that may be useful information for someone down the road. If it cause problems to the DECA system then that is also useful information.

    I sincerely hope that the two way splitter being hooked up incorrectly by me is the problem. If it is then I can fix my in-laws problem for them quickly. I agree with you that VOS is very knowledgeable.

    P.S. My car has been running rough so I am going to wash it.
     
  16. Jun 7, 2011 #116 of 139
    RobertE

    RobertE Active Member

    8,024
    0
    Jun 9, 2006
    I was referring to setting your money on fire, but the amp would be fine as well. As to how, me personally, I prefer to nuke the whole site from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.

    This stupid. Your problem is A, yet you are obsessed with fixing B. :nono2:
     
  17. Jun 8, 2011 #117 of 139
    geaux tigers

    geaux tigers Icon

    551
    0
    Nov 10, 2005
    Great idea, I will drop ship the amp to you and we will nuke it in your drive way. Make sure you hold it up high so the missiles will stay on course.
     
  18. Jun 8, 2011 #118 of 139
    ndole

    ndole Problem Solver

    1,916
    11
    Aug 26, 2009
    That wouldn't be very productive, I'd ship it back to where you bought it. Then there's a chance you'll get your money back for a part you don't need. ;)
     
  19. Jun 8, 2011 #119 of 139
    geaux tigers

    geaux tigers Icon

    551
    0
    Nov 10, 2005
    I will send it back if it does not help my in-laws long cable run. The DECA problem is probably a seperate issue.

    I will concentrate on looking at how the two way splitter is hooked up as I have stated before.
     
  20. Jun 8, 2011 #120 of 139
    ndole

    ndole Problem Solver

    1,916
    11
    Aug 26, 2009
    A separate issue from what? I didn't gather from any of your previous posts that you were having any other issues than the DECA dropout. Maybe I missed something..


    The amp will CAUSE deca problems.
     

Share This Page

spam firewall