Looks Like FoxNews' Turn (FOX News and FOX Business down 12/21/2014 and back 1/15/2015)

Discussion in 'General DISH™ Discussion' started by Nashcat, Dec 14, 2014.

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  1. Dec 22, 2014 #81 of 519
    Stewart Vernon

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    I didn't change my meaning... I just didn't cover all the angles.

    In a "perfect world" FOX would rather FOX News be a la carte and have most of the viewers paying them a much higher fee for their product. Most channels would like this, but only the ones who really feel like they "could" do it are even tempted in the current market. BUT, FOX has crunched the numbers and they know they make far more money being in a lower tier on Dish which touches most of Dish subscribers than they would be a la carte only with their targeted viewers paying a higher per-viewer fee.

    So... stuck with the tiered model, FOX leverages their less-popular channels and content by the demand for their news channel. They say "you have to pay us more for these IF you want the big channel"... and that's what gets us to where we are now.
     
  2. Dec 22, 2014 #82 of 519
    Stewart Vernon

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    They try to renew contracts in advance... but there's no pressure until the last week... and the channel who wants more money will play hardball until the last minute too. Negotiation takes both sides.

    Having all channels expire at the same time would be HORRIBLE for Dish... potentially having everything gone the same day? Having to negotiate with multiple parties at the same time?

    Now.. IF you're strictly meaning on a per-network basis... where all FOX were up at the same time, well FOX would like that. Dish might even like that... but channels are launched at various times of the year and FOX isn't going to wait for a contract to be up before launching a channel they want to debut... so contracts for new channels are on a different time-table from older ones... but sometimes they try and get everything under an umbrella over time.
     
  3. Dec 22, 2014 #83 of 519
    SayWhat?

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    I'd be more interested to see takedowns banned by law, or at least require both side to agree. Impose a back penalty on one or both sides to the contract date that would increase daily until settlement.

    Maybe even consider a way to do a sweetheart incentive for settling in advance of the contract date like some construction projects have.
     
  4. Dec 22, 2014 #84 of 519
    Jim5506

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    Banning takedowns removes the only tool that providers have to pressure distributors.

    If I have a product on Dish and can't take it down because the contract has expired, then Dish has a perpetual license to my programming with no negotiation and no price increases in sight.

    The expiration of a contract should also be the automatic termination of the service - keeping programs up is a good faith gesture by the provider.
     
  5. Dec 22, 2014 #85 of 519
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Gold Club DBSTalk Club

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    Those are not tiers ... those are special packages. Tiers work their way up ... all channels from the tier below plus a few more channels makes a tier. All of the channels from those special packages are not in AT120.
     
  6. Dec 22, 2014 #86 of 519
    Stewart Vernon

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    Law making would be a horrible idea here. You don't want the law intruding on personal or business contracts in the manner you suggest.

    Meanwhile, companies could themselves make a contract that contains "sweetheart" deals for early renewal... but neither side would agree to such a thing because they want each negotiation to be a new thing. Dish wants a better deal next time as does the channel/content provider. Neither side would want a previous agreement to tie them into any kind of kickback deal for early renewal.
     
  7. Dec 22, 2014 #87 of 519
    Stewart Vernon

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    Once again, please stay on topic and stay off politics. If you like the channel that's fine, if you don't like the channel that's also fine... but this thread is purely about a contract dispute for carriage between FOX and DISH. It isn't a political thread. More posts have been removed, and further transgressions will result in infractions or thread bans. Keep it civil, and on topic. Thanks!
     
  8. Dec 22, 2014 #88 of 519
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Gold Club DBSTalk Club

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    How would such a law handle the end of a contract ... such as when DISH decided to no longer carry Smithsonian? Or CNBC World? Write the law poorly and a channel could never be dropped. "Once carried always carried" is not a good idea.
     
  9. Dec 22, 2014 #89 of 519
    SomeRandomIdiot

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    Fox had more viewers in Primetime in November than ESPN. They were the top Cable Network for Primetime in the November Sweeps. Obviously not a 3rd tier station when looks at what people actually watch.
     
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  10. Dec 22, 2014 #90 of 519
    SomeRandomIdiot

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    That is ridiculous. There are NO channels currently offered in Basic Packages that would prefer to be a la carte, as they all know that is a losing proposition. And 90% of the channels would disappear, while you would end paying the same amount for 10 channels that you used to pay for 500.
     
  11. Dec 22, 2014 #91 of 519
    SomeRandomIdiot

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    Incorrect Again. Check your facts.

    Fox noted last Monday that they did not expect the channel to go dark if an impasse happened.

    Dish pulled the signal at 11:50PM. The contract did not expire until 11:59PM.

    Dish pulled the programming on their on at 11:50P. That is well documented fact - even though Dish is saying differently.

    Now, did they have to pull it at 11:59P? Based on the comments earlier in the week, that would seem to be no.

    Fox also notes this is the first time Fox News has EVER been pulled from a System.

    Dish also pulled Time Warner product early as well.

    So who do you believe?

    The System that has lost Time Warner, CBS, Fox and Capital Broadcasting in the last 30 days - and has been responsible for over 50% of the channel blackouts over the past 2 years...

    Or the Channel that has never been pulled off a MVPD before - and we know for a fact Dish lied as they did pull them before they had to.
     
  12. Dec 22, 2014 #92 of 519
    SomeRandomIdiot

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    Got to love Mods that hold their stance, even when it is disproven with Facts.

    CNN had one of their biggest increases in the November Sweeps. I have posted the link previously.

    Turner did not blink with CNN seeing viewers going elsewhere. They saw major increases.

    Now, I guess the new motto is let's not let the facts get in the way of a good story.....
     
  13. Dec 22, 2014 #93 of 519
    SomeRandomIdiot

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    While those tell you not to switch providers, just look at the facts.

    What Company has lost programming with Blackouts over the past 90 days?

    Dish
    1) Many Turner Channels
    2) CBS (local but agreement affected locals nationwide)
    3) Fox News / Fox Business
    4) Capitol Broadcasting (Local - 2 Markets - Raleigh and Wilmington, NC )

    DirecTV
    1) Journal (Local 8 markets - Las Vegas, Milwaukee, Nashville, Omaha, Tucson, Fort Myers, FL Green Bay, WI Lansing, MI)

    While Directv is negotiating currently with ABC (and has been for 3 months), no one expects it to go dark. ABC negotiated with Dish for 5 months.

    And of course Dish has been responsible for over 50% of the blackouts over the past 2 years. Add in Time Warner and you have just about all the blackouts. Think about that. Over 50% of the Blackouts and Dish only represents about 15% of Subs in the Nation.

    So get used to seeing blackouts with Dish.

    If you can live with that stay, if not, find another provider.

    Charlie Ergen - Q3 2014
    "Yes, we'd lose some customers, but we'd save a big, big, big check from a cash flow perspective," Ergen said.
     
  14. Dec 22, 2014 #94 of 519
    eudoxia

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    This is awesome seeing all the attention to this topic...
    I thought it would never happen, but was proven wrong.. :righton:
     
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  15. Dec 22, 2014 #95 of 519
    lparsons21

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    For most channels it wouldn't be. But Fox News viewers are a passionate and vociferous bunch! :)

    Personally this isn't an issue for me as I mostly read the news in various places around the 'net or listen to SiriusXM radio. The format of most of the 24/7 news channels of slim hard news followed by lots of opinions just doesn't cut it for me. From my POV, the local news stations do a better job.
     
  16. Dec 22, 2014 #96 of 519
    Stewart Vernon

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    If Turner didn't blink, why are their channels back on Dish?

    If Dish had blinked, then there would be a new contract... If Turn had NOT blinked, then the channels would still be off Dish.

    The fact that the Turner channels are back and Turner came back with an agreement to extend everything until sometime next year is clearly a blink by Turner. It's the very definition of a blink in a negotiation.
     
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  17. Dec 22, 2014 #97 of 519
    SomeRandomIdiot

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    Charlie said on the Q3 Conference call he would be ok without Turner - AND without Turner, he would not raise rates next year (2015).

    Charlie blinked because he knew he could not last without TBS and TNT which were about to come down.
     
  18. Dec 22, 2014 #98 of 519
    Stewart Vernon

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    But that makes literally no sense. If Dish is the one who blinked, then there would be a new contract. There is no new Turner contract. Instead Turner agreed to an extension into next year so that their channels could be back on Dish.

    Dish has lost nothing at this point... Turner, however, proved that they wanted their channels on more than they were willing to leave them off while asking for more money from Dish.
     
  19. Dec 23, 2014 #99 of 519
    tigerwillow1

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    I personally don't care who blinks. All I know is if the prices keep going up the program providers will be getting a lot of money per viewer, multiplied by hardly any viewers. Every time a distributor like Dish gives in to the increases they're moving a little bit closer to their own extinction. Giving in provides short term gain vs. long term survival, which of course seems to be our national way of doing almost everything.
     
  20. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Gold Club DBSTalk Club

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    If DISH took down the channel at 12:10AM Fox could have sued DISH for carrying the channel without permission. When permission to carry a channel expires the channel comes down. Fox may claim that they would have let DISH continue to carry the channel ... but without a contract it is risky. Especially against a multi-billion dollar company who has sued DISH in the past over their misunderstanding of their contract with DISH.

    Perhaps Fox should sue DISH for failure to carry the channels until 11:59PM. :rolleyes:
    Arguing over 9 minutes is petty.
     
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