Looks Like FoxNews' Turn (FOX News and FOX Business down 12/21/2014 and back 1/15/2015)

Discussion in 'General DISH™ Discussion' started by Nashcat, Dec 14, 2014.

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  1. TechnoCat

    TechnoCat Legend

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    Because the PMs who make the deals are expected not to leave any money on the table. If a deal is easy and friendly, it's assumed to have not pushed the other side far enough. Management practices don't have the incentives quite right. It's a bit like that one programmer on the team who writes poor code, but stays late and, in the emergency, fixes a critical bug and gets rewarded for it... even though the bug was in his code.
     
  2. TechnoCat

    TechnoCat Legend

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    I hear you, but they don't seem to be positioning them that way. They have about six different package levels, with increasing prices and with corresponding names indicating greater choice. But this may be a case of me not having the full vocabulary.

    Is there a preferred term that would cover the rungs from the minimalist Dish package up through America to AT120 and beyond?

    (BTW, and OT, my Dish America actually has far more in it than the specs. We got grandfathered into a package, pre-move, a long time ago. I'm not sure how they manage it, but it doesn't map to any of the current packages.)
     
  3. fmaclean1

    fmaclean1 New Member

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    We love both Dish (have been subscribers since 2000), and Fox News, and Fox Business. We plan to stay with both, and hope they are able to resolve this dispute soon. Missing Fox. We are also cognoscente of the fact that any increase in carriage will be passed on to subscribers, so we hope Dish and Fox will both try to be reasonable. Currently we have the DN 250 package, and two Hoppers with Joes. We have no premium channels, and we’re paying around $130 a month. Point is, the cost is approaching our “no longer worth it level”, at which point we’re gone. Just getting too expensive to pass the cost vs benefit test
     
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  4. eudoxia

    eudoxia AllStar

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    I find it comical that anyone considers these channels "news" . It's all Infotainment to distract and divide with fake conspiracies to outrage, . Without going into a rant on each of those 3, Fox has set the bar the highest in the Infotainment world.

    Try watching some programs on RT, FSTV, Link, or Al Jazeera, and before having that knee jerk reaction to scream Liberal, Socialist or any other bumper sticker realize they just might give your a different perspective than you are used to hearing whether you agree or not.
     
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  5. Nashcat

    Nashcat Legend

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    Hard news only, 24/7, = very few eyeballs. That wouldn't be the way to do it, either.
     
  6. lparsons21

    lparsons21 Hall Of Fame

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    Aye, that is the problem! Couple that with the fact that now news is supposed to make money and you get what we have. Pee-poor news coverage, but lots of opinions that are trying to be facts.

    I want Fox to come back soon, mostly so I don't keep reading the whining and crying about them being off! :)
     
  7. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Gold Club DBSTalk Club

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    On the discussion of tiers:
    Their downloadable/printed channel guides do a good job:
    http://www.mydish.com/programmingguides
    AT120 has a list of channels. AT200 has "Includes all America’s Top 120 plus channels listed below." AT250 has "Includes all America’s Top 200 plus channels listed below." That is a tiered system. Smart Pack is off to the side. DISH America is on a different chart.

    I'd call the other packages "specialty packages" ... and the key is to get the thought that these are "rungs" out of your mind. Smart Pack includes channels that are not in AT120. It includes channels from across all of the regular tiers.

    If you think of rungs on a ladder and include Smart Pack you would be standing on the first rung and have channels including Nick Toons. Then you would step up to another rung (AT120) and lose some of your channels - including Nick Toons. It would not be until you got to the AT250 rung that you would get Nick Toons back. Smart Pack cannot be a rung on a ladder ... unless all one cares about is price and not content.

    The tiered system is AT120 -> AT200 -> AT250 -> AEP
    The other packages are specialty packages. (AT120+ could be considered a tier but includes one channel not in AT200. If anyone wants to call AT120+ a tier I won't complain. :) )

    In the tiered system one steps up to the next package ... with the other "specialty packages" one steps away to either the tiered system or another specialty package.
     
  8. Chihuahua

    Chihuahua Legend

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    Has Channel 206, which had been carrying CNBC during Fox Business Network's absence disappeared (at least for the time being)?
     
  9. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Gold Club DBSTalk Club

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    Yes. At 5:41pm ET.
     
  10. mwdxer

    mwdxer Well-Known Member

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    I read the info on Direct TV signing a good deal with Disney. They have Disney XD in HD. Why don't we? Does Direct get a better deal from programmers because they have more subscribers? I back Dish on many of the disputes, but as others have stated, Dish seems to have a lot more disputes than other carriers. Any thoughts on why? We have had several in the past few month. Fox is just the latest we have lost.
     
  11. SomeRandomIdiot

    SomeRandomIdiot Godfather

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    Facts are Facts.

    Dish pulled the plug - not Fox.

    And again, based on what was said by Fox earlier in the week - and the fact that Fox had NEVER had a MVPD take down Fox News during a contract dispute (and Dish had done the same thing to Turner/CNN this same quarter) one has to be pretty naive to believe that Fox did not set 11:59PM as take it or leave it.

    As Charlie said in November on the Q3 Conference Call "Yes, we'd lose some customers, but we'd save a big, big, big check from a cash flow perspective,"
     
  12. SomeRandomIdiot

    SomeRandomIdiot Godfather

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    "Yes, we'd lose some customers, but we'd save a big, big, big check from a cash flow perspective," Dish's Charlie Ergin Q3 Earnings Conference Call - November 2014
     
  13. tsmacro

    tsmacro Hall Of Fame

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    Let me save you some time, at this point you've posted enough times that we all pretty much know exactly how all your posts will go. Something along the lines of: All the "facts" point to everything being Dish's fault all the time every time. And by "facts" you of course mean the way you interpret what's been released on to interwebs and if anyone else interprets differently than you than obviously they don't know what they're talking about because it doesn't jive with what you've decided are the "facts". Pretty much at this point all you have to do is reply "SomeRandomIdiots standard response" and we'll all know what you mean and you'll have time do other things. Meanwhile in the real world the facts are all of this is going to cost us more money on our tv bills because every time it's time for a new contract the companies that own the channels think that means it's time for a nice fat raise. Never mind that the cost of pay tv has gone up many, many times the cost of inflation over the past 20 years, at times even rivaling the rise in the cost of health care over that period of time. But hey it's only a luxury so I guess it's all about what the market will bear. Well it seems the market is showing signs of stress as more and more people are finding other ways to get their tv other than paying a traditional provider. Will the owners of the channels notice they've pushed too far before they kill the golden goose or are they too blinded by the prospect of getting a nice fat bonus for themselves right now that they haven't noticed that they're starting to price themselves out of the market of the average person? Maybe the best thing that can happen for the tv market will be when these channels actually do start offering direct streaming options to the customer because then they will be answerable directly to the customer. As opposed to now where Fox News doesn't get the angry calls from customers complaining about their bill being too high because the customers call Dish, Directv, Time-Warner or whoever they subscribe to so Fox News and all the other channels currently have that nice cushion between them and the customers that insulates them. If they start having to deal with the end customer directly maybe they'll finally get the message.
     
  14. nmetro

    nmetro Godfather

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    If DISH saves "a big, big, big checks from a cash flow perspective", then why does DISH cost about $2 to $5 less, per month,than a similar package than DirecTV? I mean, Mr. Ergen makes it sounds like, we DISH subscribers, are saving a bundle. But, that bundle ranges from $24 to $60 per year. Where people save money are lower lease and DVR fees than DirecTV. But, no way this is some kind of windfall.

    As for disputes, honestly both services have their share of disputes. Subscribers notice them with their own services, and do not normally pay attention when another service has a dispute. With a limited number of media companies, the disputes become more profound. I expect DirecTV to go through the pain with CBS, Comcast Sports, Turner, FOX, et. al., as they did with DISH. I also expect Viacom to cause a nasty dispute with DISH, like they did with DirecTV a couple years back. And I expect, NBC/Comcast NBC to be the next ugly DISH dispute, once they go through another Turner issue in a few months.

    The bottom line, the new expectation of subscribers is to expect disputes as a normalcy. It is unfortunate. Until the FCC and Congress decide that penalizing subscribers should come with a price (refunds), the childish, and quite public, disputes will continue.
     
  15. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Gold Club DBSTalk Club

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    Contracts are contracts. The contract expires the carriage expires. A fairly simple concept.
    If Fox wants Fox News carried on DISH they need to sign a contract allowing such carriage.
    Whining to the media is not the same as agreeing to a carriage contract.
    (Either a long term contract or an extension of the existing ... put it in writing and sign it.)

    I am looking forward to seeing how much Fox News' ratings jump up after being pulled from DISH. :rolleyes:
    Perhaps if the ratings jump up enough Fox will decide to stay off DISH?
     
  16. SomeRandomIdiot

    SomeRandomIdiot Godfather

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    You are right. The cost of Pay TV has gone up many, many times the cost of inflation over the past 20 years.

    20 years ago you did not have 500+ channels either.

    Actually you should look 25 years back when the MVPDs only had 36 channel capacity. Divide the total cost then by 36 channels and you find the cost per channel has actually gone DOWN.

    There were very few channels because there was no way for them to be delivered.

    Technology evolved with DBS leading the charge for more channel capacity. With more capacity, programmer suppliers filled the supply and demand gap to fill those channels.

    Furthermore, 20 years ago you were not leasing DVRs or units that can receive VOD.

    So you are really not comparing what you get from a cable bill 20-25 years ago to today.

    Cellular bills are much higher now than 20-25 years ago as well. However, Voice Calling is unlimited and less than the total bills of that time. So again, one has to look what the bill is made up of as you are not comparing apples to apples.

    And I agree with you that with a MVPD that a customer actually pays a bill to every month, the channels are insulated.

    But it is a given that a small number of OTT packages will cost more than today's typical bill for 500+ channels.

    And if it goes that way, the portion of the IP delivery system that cable/fiber MVPD use and is allocated to Video will shift to Internet, driving those prices up to pay for the delivery system.

    So with more choice - will come higher prices.

    And if it comes to buying un-bundled, there is always this:

    http://www.rapidtvnews.com/2014112336161/ott-bundles-will-cost-as-much-or-more-than-regular-cable-subscriptions.html
     
  17. SomeRandomIdiot

    SomeRandomIdiot Godfather

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    Then again, if the ratings do not fall ~15%, that always says something.

    You have no evidence that a short term agreement was not verbally agreed to or was in the works. And Dish pulled CNN/Turner under the same circumstances.

    Again:

    1) Fox News had never been dropped from any MVPD in the past. Can Dish say that about their channels? A better question is how many a month does Dish go through this with?

    2) Fox had made statements publicly that the contract expired but it was not considered a drop dead date.

    A Felony is committed. You have 2 felons in a room. One has been convicted 100 times. 1 has never been. Occam's Razor. Who's most likely committed the Felony?
     
  18. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Gold Club DBSTalk Club

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    Where is your evidence? "In the works" is not a done deal.

    You are right about Turner ... their contract expired and carriage ceased. Just like with Fox News/Fox Business. Just like with every other channel that has ended carriage on DISH, DirecTV, Time Warner, Comcast or any other provider.

    Channels don't get carried without an agreement. "In the works" is enough to get a channel on the system for testing (not available to customers). "In the works" is not enough to deliver a channel to customers. The provider needs permission.

    Verbal permission is worth the paper it is written on. If Fox wants Fox News carried they know how to get their channels carried. SIGN a deal extending carriage. That is how it is done. Whining in the media does not add channels ... otherwise PAC-12 and the Dodger's channel would be on DirecTV. :)
     
  19. nmetro

    nmetro Godfather

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    You left out one important point, as the quantity of channels has gone up; the quality of content has gone down.

    There was more variety, diversity and entertainment on the 36 channels, then there is now on 500+ channels. The OTA digital subchannels, in my area, offer the variety that cable channels used to provide.

    Last night, I recoded King of Kings and Ben Hur so I can watch them tomorrow. I ended up watching a couple movies on the OTA sub-channels, because of lack of variety and a low quality Bowl game.

    To me, when ESPN, BTN, my sport regionals and TCM start provide Internet streams, not tied to a cable or satellite subscription, there is no point subscribing to cable or satellite. Complimented with the OTA sub-channels, that would be plenty of entertainment, at a far lower price.


     
  20. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    Except that FOX and DIRECTV just did a new contract and there was never a threat to loss of channels.

    DIRECTV has not had huge losses of major channels like dish has.

    Viacom the one exception and I think that told everyone they would if they really needed to.
     
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