Looks Like FoxNews' Turn (FOX News and FOX Business down 12/21/2014 and back 1/15/2015)

Discussion in 'General DISH™ Discussion' started by Nashcat, Dec 14, 2014.

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  1. SomeRandomIdiot

    SomeRandomIdiot Godfather

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    In a court of law, one falsehood discredits the witness.

    Dish claims Fox cut them off, but the physical evidence shows Dish pulled the plug while the contract was intact.

    By the standards used by any court of law in the USA, Dish has been proven to be discredited in their statements.

    Thus Fox News History of never being dropped by any other MVPD and their statements of Saturday at 11:59PM not being a hard deadline would be found as factual, by any reasonable jury - just not a dbstalk moderator.

    You give the comical response that Dish could not throw a switch (or even plug a cable) at a certain time is laughable.

    And BTW, verbal agreements have been used in the past to extend or turn service back on until a more formal agreement can be signed. Verbal contracts, though much harder to enforce than a written contract, are perfectly valid in these instances.
     
  2. lparsons21

    lparsons21 Hall Of Fame

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    I got to thinking how appropriate some users names are... :)
     
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  3. tsmacro

    tsmacro Hall Of Fame

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    On the other hand there's evidence that shows Dish will work with and continue to negotiate and allow temporary extensions until a long term deal is done. After all Dish got permission and continued to show Disney programming for months after that contract expired. I find it hard to believe that if an extension was offered by Fox Dish wouldn't have taken them up on the offer, after all by having to remove Fox News they've had to deal with the ire of the Fox News Nation and trust me there's a group you don't rile up if you don't have to. I'm sure Fox knew they'd have this pressure to apply so they figured they were bargaining from a position of strength so why would they offer an extension that sets the precedent of them being paid the same for the service they were already getting?
     
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  4. tampa8

    tampa8 Godfather/Supporter

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    Dish is currently on an extension while negotiating with Turner also.
     
  5. SomeRandomIdiot

    SomeRandomIdiot Godfather

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    Laugh all you want.

    They were up in DEMO where it counts in ad sales compared to Monday prior to Christmas last year - even after losing coverage to about 15% of the homes in the USA via Dish.

    And still beat CNN and MSNBC combined.

    Live + Same Day Cable News Daily Ratings for Monday, December 23, 2013 vs Monday, December 22, 2014
    Code:
    Total Day - P25-54 2013                2014               +/- 
    FOXN             213,000             216,000              +3,000 
    CNN              89,000              138,000             +49,000 
    MSNBC            93,000               71,000             -22,000 
    CNBC             47,000               57,000             +10,000 
    FBN              10,000                8,000              -2,000 
    HLN              66,000              126,000             +60,000 
     
  6. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Gold Club DBSTalk Club

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    You are just illustrating the foolishness of crediting differences in ratings to one factor. And proving my point. :)
     
  7. SomeRandomIdiot

    SomeRandomIdiot Godfather

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    You fail to explain why Fox News has never had a blackout previously if that was their desired negotiation tactic.

    As for Dish, this is literally how many thousands?
     
  8. SomeRandomIdiot

    SomeRandomIdiot Godfather

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    Nice come back after proving you wrong once again. If your statements don't hold up, change the narrative.
     
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  9. tsmacro

    tsmacro Hall Of Fame

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    Actually I did explain it, like I said they figure no one wants to face the Fox News Nation and other providers didn't put up much of fight, hence Fox saying we offered Dish the same deal we gave other providers, they never said it was a good deal for Dish or its customers just that it was the same.
     
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  10. Slamminc11

    Slamminc11 Hall Of Fame

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    Been thinking that for a while now!
     
  11. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    The only "evidence" we have at this point is that the channels are not on Dish. This means there is no agreement between FOX and Dish to carry the channels. Pretty much anything beyond that is speculation UNLESS someone here is an insider and is breaking a confidentiality agreement to post... so when people throw around "facts" as if they are facts, it can be distracting.

    All we know is that Dish isn't in a contract with FOX right now for these channels. We can suspect that Dish "pulled the plug early" out of spite OR we could guess that they did it because they wanted to ensure they were off the air when the contract expired. Evidence to the latter point is that when new contracts are signed, channels don't light up immediately. Also, when ABC got the agreement for C3 delay on AutoHop that took a month or so to implement I believe... and I could be wrong but I don't think the new C7 agreement with CBS and AutoHop has been implemented yet... so signing a new contract doesn't mean everything starts EXACTLY at the deadline... just like when a contract ends, sometimes the signal goes off early.

    Dish pays until midnight, but cuts the signal off 10 minutes early to be safe... The alternative is Dish risks keeping the signal on a second after midnight, being illegally in violation of transmitting unauthorized signals and then has a lawsuit on their hands... like when Dish thought they had a verbal agreement with Disney for those HD feeds years ago that Disney disagreed and sued Dish over non-payment... Dish lost that because it wasn't in the contract.

    We could also speculate that FOX is the one closed to an extension while negotiating. FOX is the only one who can grant an extension, since it is there content... so it might be reasonable to conclude. There is the off chance that FOX did make an offer to extend BUT if other speculation is true and FOX wants to raise rates on other under-contract channels and use FOX News/Business as leverage... Dish might not see that as an extension offer in good faith and be right to turn it down.

    We can all play the speculation game.
     
  12. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Gold Club DBSTalk Club

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    I did not say what you accuse me of saying here. Perhaps you should take more time and read?

    DISH had a contract with Fox to carry Fox News and Fox Business. That contract expired at 11:59pm Saturday night. DISH did not have permission to carry the channels beyond 11:59pm. They did what they were forced to do by Fox's contract.

    If you believe DISH was required to carry the channels until 11:59pm then perhaps you should talk to Fox and have them sue DISH for breach of contract. When that suit is filed please let us know.
     
  13. lparsons21

    lparsons21 Hall Of Fame

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    Here's something I found interesting from the Fox News TV Wiki:
    As indicated by a New York Times article, based on Nielsen statistics, Fox appears to have an aging demographic.[48] In 2008, in the 25-54 age group, Fox News had an average of 557,000 viewers, but dropped to 379,000 in 2013 while increasing its overall audience from 1.89 million in 2010 to 2.02 million in 2013. The median age for Fox News viewers is listed as 65+ as Nielsen does not give exact figures for ages over 65.

    I hadn't thought that the median age for Fox News viewers was anywhere near that high. IMO, makes the issue less of an issue. And now a bit of conjecture. Assuming the daily viewership is about 2 milion, and assume that 1/4 of them come from Dish, then the number of Dish subs materially affected by this shutdown is about 500K viewers. The 1/4 is a WAG as I don't know how it would all match up, but I would think 1/4 would be more than are actually Dish customers. While 500K subscriber loss wouldn't be welcome by Dish, they could surely survive and remain profitable if they never brought Fox News back it would seem.

    Of course in that 2 Million viewers a certain percentage are not die-hard Fox News fans which brings the numbers all lower.
     
  14. SomeRandomIdiot

    SomeRandomIdiot Godfather

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    No, Fox News expired at other MVPDs and it was never pulled. Never Ever.

    So they did not just roll over.

    But do not let facts get in the way of the truth as so many others do.
     
  15. SomeRandomIdiot

    SomeRandomIdiot Godfather

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    While you are correct ALL the News Programming on ANY channel skews old, how have you come up with your fictional number that 25% of Fox Viewers Nationally come from Dish - except that it sounded good to you?

    Then again, you are implying that Dish subs over index in the 65+ category.

    Based on many of the respondents, you might be on to something there.
     
  16. SomeRandomIdiot

    SomeRandomIdiot Godfather

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    Perhaps you should take time to remember the implications of what you posted:

    You are the one that implying Dish is incompetent to pull a channel at 11:59PM

    And I will let you ponder this. Dish has no issue pulling a signal to the second when Sports Blackouts go into effect.

    Amazing that you would argue that they could not do the same when they know the same about another network, as it is a simply computer entry.

    But then again, perhaps you are saying that is too hard for the employees of Dish to perform.
     
  17. Nashcat

    Nashcat Legend

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    Too bad as Topic Starter, I don't have any moderation powers over this thread. LOL

    Seems the idiots, random as they may be, are not smart enough to know when their bull-headed stubbornness sorely detracts from the usefulness of the discussion.
     
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  18. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    This brings up something that I always wonder about... when I see figures like this, I don't know what it means. Are they counting eyes on the channel at any point during the day? And is that saying only 2 million viewers over the course of the day? Or is that the peak viewership at any particular time of day?

    In any event... What it doesn't say is IF the 2 million viewers on Monday are the same viewers on Tuesday. Now, you might *think* most of them would be... but maybe a lot aren't. I rarely watch FOX news, but when a major news event happens I try and bounce around them all to get as balanced coverage as I can... so on some days I would be one of those 2 million but not most days.

    So... when we try and parse how many of those 2 million viewers might be Dish customers, I don't know how easy that is to figure... Dish has about 14 million subscribers... It is entirely possible that on any particular day as many as half of those might tune to FOX News for a bit... so... over the course of the month 7 million Dish customers might notice FOX News being absent even if no more than a half million regularly tune to the channel.

    That's the guessing game Dish has to play in these negotiations... the people who watch FOX News a lot are the ones who will complain... but how many of them are there? Then, of the casual/occasional viewers, there could be a lot who might complain IF this was the week they were going to tune in to FOX News.

    Dish knows more about that than any of us does, though, since their receivers report this kind of info to them.
     
  19. Nashcat

    Nashcat Legend

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    Stewart, can they see this in real, or near real time? Do you know what all they can see?
     
  20. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Gold Club DBSTalk Club

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    The sports blackouts are routine and designed into the receiver. Changing content on a feed is not the same process.

    *I* did not say that DISH could not make the change exactly at 11:59pm. Please stop making things up. I said that it is foolish to argue over 9-10 minutes. But if 9-10 minutes early is the best you can do in your near constant crusade against DISH Network ... I suppose that is the best that you can do. :rolleyes:
     
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