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Maybe the 921 isn't THAT bad compared to HD Tivo

Discussion in 'Standard Definition Receiver Support Forum' started by smooth28la, May 11, 2004.

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  1. Cholly

    Cholly Old Guys Rule! DBSTalk Club

    Mar 22, 2004
    I have a TiVo Series 2 that is set up to receive the 4 networks from cable and sat. channels from my Dish 811 . Being a NASCAR fan, I record the Nextel Cup and Busch races so I won't be tied to the TV for several hours. I have season passes set up for both series, and pad the scheduled record times by 1 1/2 hours. Sadly for me, this isn't enough. I've missed the end of several races that ran overtime due to accidents or weather.
    If NBR on the 921 or, for that matter, on the 510 or 721, gets around that issue, I'm all for it! So that I can watch one live program while recording anotherI've got my retailer looking into getting me a 721, and what, if any, costs above the $249 might be involved for switching to a quad lnbf.
  2. Tusk

    Tusk Back in the Game DBSTalk Gold Club

    Nov 14, 2002
    This has happened to people who pad everything in their season pass list. I prefer not to pad any shows. I always miss the first minute of ER (for example), but with show many shows to watch, that minute isn't the end of the world. :D
  3. Mark Lamutt

    Mark Lamutt Your Neighborhood Liasion

    Mar 23, 2002
    The 921 currently automatically adjusts the padding to 0 if the padding creates a timer conflict between tuners.

    Scott - I've had a couple of people tell me over the last day or so that if you set pad times and the pad times create a conflict between events to be recorded, the second event won't record.
  4. schmoo34

    schmoo34 New Member

    May 12, 2004
    I've been with Dish for almost 5 years. I've been drooling for HD for almost a year. The 921 and its problems is the reason I switched to Dish. I am not a loyal Tivo fan but must say that after experiencing it...it is easy to see why people are loyal.

    For starters, as a Dish customer here is what I think E* did great:

    Banner browsing. Second to none, E* implemented it wonderfully and I really miss that feature

    E* color coded the menu guide. I know it sounds silly but I miss that a lot. Green for ppv channels, red for channels you don't subscribe to. I liked the colors.

    UHF remote is overrated, in my opinion, but apparently some folks feel it is important. The part I miss about E*'s remote is the ability to power on/off my receiver. Powering off my tv does me no good if the sound is still coming out of my receiver.

    Sadly, though, those are the only things I miss. PQ is good, HD TIVO has so far been 100% reliable. The above items aren't enough to keep my loyalty so I'm glad I made the switch.

    I do want to say for the record that I wish I didn't have to switch. The 921, if it weren't buggy would have been my dream receiver and I would have gladly stayed with Dish. I know Charlie is full of crap and the master of spin, but I do like supporting the underdog...and now I feel like I joined the dark side.

    With that said, sometimes being evil is good. :lol:
  5. Phil T

    Phil T Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

    Mar 25, 2002
    Tivo will warn you with a conflict screen. You can also go into the to do list and see if a padded seasons pass is going to give you any problems. You can also change the priority level of the season passes to make sure your favorite show gets recorded in case of a conflict.
  6. scottchez

    scottchez Icon

    Feb 4, 2003
    You have got to be kidding . . .

    This thread is titled about the Software Picture on the HD Tivo.

    Every one knows when you get a new Box and use new cables and new connectors

    You have to retune/tweak your TV. Simply record one of those Test Patterns on HBo or HDNET and use DVE and Avia as a base line with your DVD player connected to the same input line.

    Mine at first looked soft and bad. Now it is perfect again.

    My 65 PRTV has 4 Pic mode settings that I can customize. I have one for Dish and one for Direct TV. They are VERY different.

    I do not see any difference in Pic quality between the two now. It just takes some time to tweak it.
  7. Chris Blount

    Chris Blount Creator of DBSTalk Staff Member Administrator DBSTalk Gold Club

    Jun 22, 2001
    Very good points!
  8. kenyarnall

    kenyarnall Mentor

    May 11, 2004
    Completely OT, but... I hope all FireFly fans know by now that the FireFly movie ("Serenity") is in preproduction and begins filming in June, slated for a 2005 release. Entire original cast, Joss wrote and is directing. :D

    Sorry --- couldn't help it. Back to your regularly scheduled discussion!

  9. bonscott87

    bonscott87 Cutting Edge: ECHELON '07

    Jan 21, 2003
    Unfortunately nothing is going to help you there. Tivo or Dish (or Replay or UTV, etc.) isn't going to know the live event runs long. You just have to learn to add even more time to Nascar events.
  10. bonscott87

    bonscott87 Cutting Edge: ECHELON '07

    Jan 21, 2003
    Sure, it can happen. With dual tuners it's less likely. But as mentioned above, the Tivo will warn you if this will happen when you setup or change your season pass. If you set a recording with padding for 8:58 to 10:00 and you already have two things setup to record until 9:00, then the show from 8:58 until 10 won't record. It's logical and makes sense. You'll just need to get a sense of how you order your season passes if this is something that you have to do and prioritize which you'd rather miss: First two minutes of a show or the last two minutes of an earlier show. A non-Tivo device isn't going to help you here. I typically scan my ToDo list about once a week just to see if I have any conflicts. I normally don't, but then I don't record much off the "Big 4" networks which seem to want to start and end their programs at weird times.

    However, an oft requested feature of Tivo has been "soft padding" in that if there is a conflict as stated above, it would record the 8:58 show anyway but skip the first 2 minutes. That would be a hard one to program which is why it probably hasn't been an added feature (yet). I want to say that the UTV had something like this, but can't remember exactly.

    Have fun!
  11. Mark Lamutt

    Mark Lamutt Your Neighborhood Liasion

    Mar 23, 2002
    That's what I wanted confirmation on, Scott. The padding on the 921 would be considered "soft" in this terminology, as it automatically adjusts to 0 if a conflict is caused by the padding. The only time I would see the timer conflict screen is if the actual times of the programs conflicted, not if the pad times caused the conflict.

    (And, I'm definitely not bashing the Tivo and praising the 921 here - just trying to get a clear picture in my own head what the advantages and deficiencies of each option are.)
  12. bonscott87

    bonscott87 Cutting Edge: ECHELON '07

    Jan 21, 2003
    No problem!
  13. BobMurdoch

    BobMurdoch Hall Of Fame

    Apr 24, 2002
    Hey, I actually got to use an SD DirecTivo last night for the first time. My sister and brother in law (he's a Broncos fan and she's a 49er fan... but both are based here in NJ) switched to D* after CBS yanked their distant CBS feeds last summer (they had been getting the Denver and LA feeds but then CBS yanked them all for some reason last May). They tried to suffer through last year without Sunday ticket, but finally jumped ship over the issue....

    I just helped them hook it up last night and I have a few observations....

    Pro D*:
    Rock solid stability so far (in fairness to E* my 510 (which I consider this equal to) has been rock solid as well)
    this is stupid, but I like those cute little sound effects.
    I like the sliding menus and the moving background... looks more professional
    Sunday Ticket
    Free View - They had a Blue Man Group show recorded - very cool..... PPV coupons don't do it for me, make it automatic (verify online when it dials home) and we'll talk
    Season pass & Name based recording.
    14 day guide vs. 8 or 9 day guide with E*
    Much better search filters

    Anti D*

    OH GOD - That slow guide will have me sucking on a gun barrel in ten minutes of use
    No Caller ID (They are upset at themselves that they are THAT lazy OR that they get up to find out that it is junk phone calling)
    IR Remote - They pipe music out to their balcony and used the remote to change the channel -- now they have to get up to do it.
    No time remaining info on the hard disk
    Tivo Remote isn't as intuitive as the Dish Remote (Who put the TV power button down there... only the thumbs up and thumbs down buttons are easy to find)
    Hard to setup favorites - E* doesn't do this perfect either, but I had a hell of a time bouncing back and forth trying to figure out what those channel abbreviations stood for...
    It lists all channels that he doesn't get and doesn't distinguish like E* with the red labels.

    Am I missing anything?
    I only had about an hour to play, but that was what jumped out at me.....
  14. David_Levin

    David_Levin Icon/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

    Apr 22, 2002
    Well, it seems like a big Pro D* is that it's a dual tuner box. Really closer in funcationality to the 721 then the 510.

    Plus a reasonably proficient user can increase the hard drive space (there are even kits available which eliminate the need to prep in a computer).
  15. bonscott87

    bonscott87 Cutting Edge: ECHELON '07

    Jan 21, 2003
    True. Basically don't use the DirecTV "grid style" guide. Tell them to use the "Tivo style" guide which is quite fast. Also allows you to see 8+ hours ahead on each channel. Some people hate it, most love it after you get used to it. But then again most don't ever use it. I use it *maybe* once a week. I have 100+ hours recorded plus a couple dozen season passes. I have no need to look at live TV. :)

    Common complaint and it's up to the individual. I have never, ever seen the need for caller ID on my TV. I have caller ID on my $30 cordless phone for a reason. ;) However, there are small boxes that you can buy to be put inline that will display the caller id on your TV.

    Easy to fix. Get a cheap IR extender at Radio Shack (if it's worth it to them obviously).

    Common request. What some do if they really, really need it is leave suggestions turned on. Suggestions will always get delete first if needed so add up the time of all the suggestions and you should have about how much time is left.

    I have a Universal Remote so I can't comment on that one.

    Guess it's just not knowing what the channels are. You can print out a channel list off the DirecTV web site and use that as reference as you are setting it up.

    Common complaint while setting up "channels I receive". It would be nice to have some sort of auto-detect (some regualr D* receivers have this feature) but since I know exactly what channels I get I guess I've never seen it as a big deal. But I can see why it annoys some people.

    I think most Tivoites will not claim the Tivo is perfect. But if the biggest complaint people have is that the unit doesn't have caller id or doesn't auto-detect channels, I'd call that a rock solid unit since what it's supposed to do is record and it certainly does that better then anything out there (my opinion) and is stable. :D Mine has rebooted once in the past year, and that was for a software upgrade.

    Hope your friends have fun with their new toy!
  16. BobMurdoch

    BobMurdoch Hall Of Fame

    Apr 24, 2002
    Good point with the dual tuners, Make it similar to the 721 for argument's sake then.... We didn't check that out but I forgot that the D* installer hooked up both feeds.... I just tied everything to their A/V receiver and reprogrammed their remotes....

    I did like the fact that D* allows more customized settings.....
  17. John Quaglino

    John Quaglino AllStar

    Aug 5, 2003
    As a recent 921 owner and now a convert to Directv, I have to echo many of the above statements.

    Echostar has a very good product on its hands with the 921. In my 3 months of ownership, I enjoyed using it even with the bugs. My biggest problems were with E* and their apparent lack of vision. The Dishwire fiasco, IMHO, depleated the value of the 921 below its competition. I left Dish for this reason and the fact that they still do not have my locals and aren't planning them anytime soon. I live in New Orleans, the 43rd market.

    I now own a SD Tivo. While not the HD version, I can comment on the operating system. The 921 and Tivo are different beasts. The 921's guide is lightning fast. It is great for scrolling to see what is on. The Tivos are ridiculously slow for a hardrive based product. Using the guide to see what is own is a PIA. The 921 has the browse feature which is great. The Tivo does not. In defense of Tivo, Season Pass, Name based recording, flawlessly, and a much better searching ability. Tivo suggestions are pretty darn cool. The unit is always recording something. If you like it, watch it and let it know. It learns as it goes. It prioritizes what you tell it to record and keeps those on the drive while deleting the suggestions.

    As an earlier poster said the 921 is a reciever with PVR functions and the Tivo is a recorder. If you are mainly interested in watching live television, surfing, and having recording capabilities, then the 921 is for you. If you want ease of use for recording and having a hardrive full of content without needing operator involvement, Tivo is for you.

    Right now, I'm using a SDTivo next to a HTL-HD. I watch live television (HD and SD) with the HTL-HD and recorded material with the Tivo.
  18. guruka

    guruka Troublemaker/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

    Dec 27, 2003
    Yah, this is basically true. My neighbor has a Tivo (hooked up to cable) which I've played with, and it has pretty menus and a good interface. . . but it is slow. I recommended one to my mom (she's on Comcast cable in L.A.) and she loves it. I prefer my 921, but I guess I'm more of a tinkerer than most. Got my 921 in January and have enjoyed being a gamma tester ;)

  19. jsanders

    jsanders Hall Of Fame

    Jan 21, 2004
    The other big one (besides 2nd tuner) is you can add an extra hard drive to the HR10-250 HD TiVo.

    I have a de-activated 6000 that I am using as a 2nd OTA tuner. Can't record with it, but in some rare event, I can record something on the 921, and watch something else on the 6000. Yes, it does work de-activated. All you need is for it to see channel 101 for it to work.

    Some TiVo people have said that the channel guide slowness isn't a big deal, because they don't use it after a while. My sister has an SD TiVo, and she said it is still a pain in the neck for her after years of use. Personally, I think that channel surfing is more fundamental than recording stuff. How do you know what you want to record if you haven't surfed around to see what new shows are on?
  20. JM Anthony

    JM Anthony Child of the 60's DBSTalk Gold Club

    Nov 16, 2003
    Our household is still a newbie when it comes to the 921, but the more time we spend with it the more we like it. Quite a leap froward from the 508 it replaced. The program guide is totally cool and we haven't had any problems in recording programs, but to be honest, we're not too demanding there. My wife has even transcended from the "why did you have to spend more money on another tech. toy" stage. Earliest from all of my recent purchases.
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