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mountain network /pac12 network...

Discussion in 'DIRECTV Programming' started by sticketfan, May 18, 2012.

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  1. Jul 19, 2012 #321 of 1671
    inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    Sorry don't buy that at all. It's all about money and only money. Other than the few RSNs that are coming online, I don't think DIRECTV actually feels any pressure to add more Hi Definition channels, and they absolutely without question have room for all the new channels on a couple of unused transponders right now that they recently emptied. And how many of the Hi Definition feeds other than premiums do they show in Hi Definition on two different feeds(east and west) None that I can think of. So that's really not an issue, especially with Viacom. Your argument about Viacom having to much space makes no sense, they have no duplicate feeds and several feeds that aren't in Hi Definition at all. They are not trying to shrink the number of Hi Definition channels Viacom is having them show. Dtv keeps saying this too, is that they want touch for epix. Interesting that it's all about money and those would be new channels that would actually take up some space.

    I think that's also the only thing that's causing issues (if the are actually issues, we dont know) with the pac12. Money. I don't think the holdback is bandwidth at all.
     
  2. Jul 19, 2012 #322 of 1671
    inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    I have said this many times, but I don't think anyone has payed any attention to it. They have said they will be spreading all the other, especially basketball, games out as much as possible so that they can show almost every game to everyone wether they have the regional or the national channels. They want as man different games of all teams n the national channel. The problem is football because they can't show those five or six nights a week. They are already gong to add some thursday and Fridays games a couple times for football too though, I believe.
     
  3. Jul 19, 2012 #323 of 1671
    tonyd79

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    I never, never, never said it was just about football. Never. I did say that there will be fewer than 2 events per day for the first year. Somehow I even doubt that all that many will be at the same time.

    I have more than a clue. Seems that many channels get their ratings and programing out there without seven full time channels. BTN does quite well with its game-only channels when there is a duplicate. So does Comcast Bay Area and Comcast California. And MASN here in the east, not to mention YES, SNY and MSG.

    I am talking about providing ALL the programming. Live game-only channels plus the national channel. All the non-live programming will be available on the national channel. The PAC 12 already said so. They will just shuffle the times. Do you really think that someone is going to ditch satellite because the weekly highlight show for Utah is on at 3pm on Tuesday instead of 1 pm on Monday? In the time of DVRs?

    Besides, who would they go to? Cable systems will not provide the alternate channel programming. You keep forgetting that. Sure, someone may but in SD and for an extra fee. How does that work out? Cable folks in many of the BTN areas only get one feed (some two) and miss out on the other stuff. Folks in Houston don't get Boston sports on cable. But that is not part of marketing?

    No, I am calling your insistence that DirecTV must provide all seven channels full time a rant.

    Now, who is being naive? First, you are dead wrong on the use of the bandwidth. Nick does not have SEVEN channels of HD. All the Viacom channels in HD rises just above seven.

    Plus you really think that the PAC 12 *alternate* channels (which is what we are arguing about) are worth more to DirecTV than the Viacom suite? And you say I know nothing about demographics and marketing. Where is the outrage and news following the PAC 12 channels? Yet the Viacom/DirecTV deal is considered huge news all over the country by news outlets, financial reporters, the very business itself. Yup, I am naive. I want to DirecTV to give the PAC 12 programming to everyone in a way that would work for everyone. YOU are the only one who insists it be one way. And then blame DirecTV for doing exactly what you say they should be doing...making a business decision. They have decided that it is NOT worth seven full time channels. I think they know better than you.
     
  4. Jul 19, 2012 #324 of 1671
    inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    So you're saying all the classic games from all of the local regional channels will also be on the national channel just inot repeated as many times? I have a hard time figuring out how they're going to show all of the stuff that's on the regional channel on one national channel aside from games that are current. That's assuming that the part-time channels would carry the pre-and postgame shows as well.

    Actually I've been thinking that the pack 12 channels plus a few other channels that people would enjoy that have similar but different programming than the Viacom channels would actually be more profitable in the long run than simply just picking up the Viacom channels. The pack 12 channels by themselves no probably not more valuable than all of the Viacom channels however if they pick up other channels as well to replace some of the Viacom channels not so sure that it wouldn't work out to be a wash or even positive for DirecTV.
     
  5. Jul 19, 2012 #325 of 1671
    tonyd79

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    I am goin by what the PAC 12 said early on. That all programming would be available to all customers although some games may be delayed if they don't have that channel locally. The BTN shows tons of classic games. I just don't think you understand how much down time there will be. Say there are 700 events at 2.5 hour each (only football goes longer). That is 1750 hours a year. There are 8760 hours in a normal year. That leaves 7000 hours to fill. Even with coaches shows and stuff, you are talking over 3000 slots for "classic" games. (classic games are usually abbreviated to 2 hours).

    Plus the PAC 12 really is putting emphasis on the streaming portion.
     
  6. Jul 19, 2012 #326 of 1671
    WebTraveler

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    Once again you are mis-stating what I said. It seems to be a perpetual problem with you. You keep saying I am saying that Directv must add the Pac 12 Network in its entirety.

    Everything I have read has suggested that Comcast will have the entire line of Pac 12 channels in a sports tier. They are saying that here in Oregon, I can't tell you what they tell you in MD and I wouldn't venture to guess what they tell you in Maryland, because I don't know. But somehow you know what Comcast is saying here, which I don't understand how you could even know that, I never have said that, not once. What I have said is that there will be a lot of people that leave if they don't, including myself. I said Directv has traditionally sold itself as a sports provider. I have said Directv will get a higher return on customers IF it sticks to sports. The demographics for MTV and SpongeBob are for people that do not have much disposable income (college students, kids, young adults out of college, etc.).

    I also said that IF there is a limited bandwidth, which I still am not convinced about, then Directv must be judicious with the bandwith and put it to its highest and best use.

    Let's be clear exactly what I say rather than twist it. I don't know why you keep saying something different Do you do this all the time - change the words to suit your own rant?

    I also never said that Nick had 7 channels....where do you get this? I said that Nick had two channels, MTV had 2 or 3, VH1 has two, and so forth. Again, another complete distortion.

    Even if your average of two events a day is true, the bulk of them will be across weekend days and thus all these part-time channels won't really work.

    Basically TonyD79, you are that know it all person who really doesn't know much. I told you we could agree to disagree, but instead you just distorted and twisted what I said. If you don't like the Pac 12 Network then fine, so be it. But for me it is a deal breaker, period. Directv does not have carry it in its entirety, but Directv will lose me as a customer (and others as well) if they don't make a significant effort to carry the programs somewhere on its system at the time they are offered. Whether that means changing channel numbers I do not know. Whether that means getting it by broadband to some extent I do not know. But if major sporting events are not on the TV then I will depart. I may give it a few weeks because some of what I will watch I won;t even be home for - I will be at some of the games on the Pac 12.

    Regardless, just stop distorting and twisting what I say. You could be a politician with how you twist and turn it all.

     
  7. Jul 20, 2012 #327 of 1671
    davidatl14

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    Interesting bit of info from a Jon Wilner Chat regarding the PAC -12 Networks


    Your TV provider has to offer the service and you have to sub to the level of package in order to stream the games or any other programming no matter who your ISP provider is.

    So in other words if DTV(fails to reach an agreement) you can not access the PAC 12 Networks online even if you have Comcast as ISP.

    Interesting.

    As a sports fan I hope DTV and Pac 12 can reach some type of agreeement even if it's not for all seven channels.
     
  8. Jul 20, 2012 #328 of 1671
    maartena

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    Lets be realistic here: Mike White has only said that they won't be carrying 7 channels. But that is a statement that has a lot more political value than technical value, and is more a little bit of "mudslinging", instead of a 100% factual statement that 7 channels are "not worth it".

    Here is an interesting comment by the way from Gary Stevenson, PAC-12 President:

    "As of Wednesday, Stevenson said there was nothing new of substance to report on that other than what has already been known --- that the Networks will be available on Comcast, Time-Warner, Cox and Bright House. Negotiations remain ongoing with DirecTV and Dish Network.

    Stevenson characterized those as "positive conversations'' and said "nothing I have heard is discouraging to me.''

    The Networks will go live on Aug. 15 and he said he remains confident deals will be completed by then --- it's common for such deals to go down to the last minute. "We are hoping it doesn't come to that,'' he said. "And that's why we are working so hard with all of them. ... everyone we have spoken to likes our content and at the end of the day, great content carries the day. I think everyone we have spoken to understands that our fans are very interested in our content, and in today's world, if a fan wants content, they find it.

    "Nobody has said to us 'we don't want you. We are not going to carry you.' It's more about can we figure out an agreement that is fair to both parties.''"



    Now, that really doesn't say anything conclusive about whether they are going to carry 7 channels or not, but it doesn't rule it out either.

    From my personal surroundings, friends and families, I know this:

    - I was able to watch UCLA softball and track&field on FS West last season.
    - My brother in-law was able to watch all USC football games in a sports bar in Phoenix last season.
    - A colleague that is a fan of everything Washington State University was able to watch all basketball and women's soccer games from Socal last season.
    - A buddy that moved to Boise, Idaho a few years back (that isn't in any PAC12 territory), was able to watch most of his USC sports (outside of football) via FS West and Prime ticket via DirecTV. (He is now a big Boise State fan, the traitor! :D :D)


    The big question really is: Will DirecTV be able to retain the same access to PAC 12 college sports as they had LAST year, or will they feel compelled to limit it because of bandwidth issues and other projects that also need bandwidth.
     
  9. Jul 20, 2012 #329 of 1671
    TheRatPatrol

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    And didn't the article you posted say that the carriers had a choice to carry all of them or not?
     
  10. Jul 20, 2012 #330 of 1671
    maartena

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    An interview in OC Register said that it is up to the cable providers what to provide for their local regions.

    Basically, if a cable provider provides access to the main network and the local network, they will probably make 99% of fans happy that will get to see ALL sports from their local schools in their homes.

    Satellite CAN do exactly the same, via zipcode checks and whatnot, but they would still need to carry all feeds CONUS.

    I think a lot of people forget how university sports fans migrate across the country. People that study at university A, usually remain a fan of that university, and if they move halfway across the country they usually do not lose their love for those teams.

    Luckily, DirecTV was always there for them: Through the sports pack a UCLA graduate that moved to Boston would be able to see UCLA Softball on FS West.

    Whether that same type of access will still be possible for people across the country with DirecTV, remains to be seen. But DirecTV, including their clientele among sports bars, has a high interest to show as much PAC12 sports as they possibly can across the nation.

    Now whether they do this through all 7 channels are whether they do this through part time feeds.... remains to be seen. But I would still want to see the UCLA softball girls play from time to time, as they have an excellent softball program.
     
  11. Jul 20, 2012 #331 of 1671
    BusterAvis

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    This is a very good point.
    DirecTV has the sports pack (all those fox and sports regional networks), and they would be losing a lot of regional (west, aka pac-12 level) programming, if they decide not to carry the regional Pac-12 channels.

    People say that 90% of the programming will be the same on the national channel as the regional channels. What they're forgetting is that the schedules that the Pac-12 networks just released were only through Sept. 2nd. That only includes soccer, and the first weekend of football. They haven't released all their other weeks during the fall period, which will include more football, tons of volleyball matches, field hockey games, and tons of more soccer matches. There aren't as many live matches (per day avg.) from Aug. 15 - Sept 2nd as there is from Sept. 3rd through the rest of the school year. In fact, not even close. The avg. live matches per day rate will be about 3 times as much as the per day avg. rate from the date range of the schedules they released to us (Aug. 15 - Sept. 2). And especially during basketball season. There will be lots of games going on at the same time (especially non-conference basketball season, when 12 teams are playing 12 teams from other conferences).
     
  12. Jul 20, 2012 #332 of 1671
    tonyd79

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    I would think so, even with part time channels. They are still talking about fewer than 2 events per day.

    That seems to keep getting lost in this nonsense about how many events are available or were on FSN, etc. There just isn't THAT much material. Plus the PAC 12 is really putting its eggs more in the streaming basket than the broadcast one. It sounds like much more will be available via streaming than will be on the channels themselves.
     
  13. Jul 20, 2012 #333 of 1671
    tonyd79

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    A note for your suppostion. In college sports, the HOME team owns the rights. There will be PAC 12 games on other networks if they play away from home. Plus a lot of non-conference games are in tournaments, etc., that would be on ESPN et al.

    And yet, somehow the BTN does it with one channel and alternates and ALL their football and basketball games and a lot of other sports are on live for everyone, including wrestling, track and field, softball, women's basketball and soon more hockey (as they start a real conference), golf.

    But I know, the PAC 12 is special. ;)
     
  14. Jul 20, 2012 #334 of 1671
    maartena

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    "Stevenson said there will be 850 events broadcast by the Pac-12 networks in the first year.

    He said ESPN and Fox will air another 120, leaving an additional 1,400 events in assorted sports that can be added to the television lineup or streamed on the digital side of Pac-12 Enterprises in the future."


    (Source: http://www.dailycamera.com/cu-college-sports/ci_20771004/pac-12-gears-up-850-broadcasts )

    That would come down to an average of about 2.5 events a day, based on a 365 day year. But a sports season is much shorter and compressed (often only 4 to 6 months), and don't play on all 7 days to not conflict with big events such as monday night football. So when baseball, softball, soccer, basketball and football all are in full swing, you could see as many as 10 events a day, especially in the weekends.

    The current schedules for baseball/softball and basketball, soccer haven't even be announced yet.

    And that is just the first year. Another 1400 events might be added in the future....

    It really looks like there is plenty of events to warrant extra channels. Now is 6 too much? Probably.... I would imagine that with proper planning, they could actually do a main network, and a network for each division, one for the south division, one for the north division, and plan everything accordingly.

    At least.... for the first year that would be a good solution. If they can still get away with that with 850 + 1400 = 2250 yearly events in a year or few years from now, remains to be seen.

    The plan is ambitious and bold, that is for sure. And quite frankly, if DirecTV had oodles of bandwidth left on their satellites, I don't think anyone would oppose 7 CONUS channels.

    We'll have to see what happens.... but it's never a good situation if DirecTV is losing out on very popular college sports that could up until now be received nationwide.

    Personally, if they would have gone with a main network, a "north" network and a "south" network, it would be a lot easier, also for cable companies, to just carry em all in HD.
     
  15. Jul 20, 2012 #335 of 1671
    tonyd79

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    I just saw that. The previous articles said something in the 600s. Either they added or they made a mistake somewhere.

    Still not that big a deal. It can still be done without SEVEN full time channels.

    That is my only point. I WANT DirecTV to get the Pac 12. I like sports and it would give me another late night option as well. My only point is that seven full time channels is wasteful. From statements, I assume that is the hold up.

    As to the rest of your post, I agree. I think they overreached. They are not going to get the penetration they think they will even with cable systems. No one has the space or the inclination or market to do 6 events a day from one conference.
     
  16. Jul 20, 2012 #336 of 1671
    sdk009

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  17. Jul 20, 2012 #337 of 1671
    sum_random_dork

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    Lots of news broke today on the channel, to watch online you'll have to have a provider for both TV and internet that has a deal in place with Pac 12 networks. (i.e. if you have Comcast internet but have DirecTV for TV and D* doesn't come to an agreement, you won't be able to watch the streaming broadcast) The pressure will be on Dish and DirecTV now to add the channel with the latest deal with the NCTC adds a lot more West Coast cable companies that will have the channel (Wave Broadband, Astound, and I think Suddenlink are all members).

    Also, Ted Robinson will be lead PbyP for football (and probably basketball). The second PbyP person is rumored to be Dave Flemming of the SF Giants and ESPN college basketball. Two solid hires by the channel that will bring them legitmacy in the market.
     
  18. Jul 20, 2012 #338 of 1671
    maartena

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    With that agreement it brings the total of cable viewers to about 50-ish million. (Was 40 million, and I am completely guessing that the 900+ podunk cable providers covered by NCTC will add at least 10 million).
     
  19. Jul 20, 2012 #339 of 1671
    David Ortiz

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    It has been 850 since the announcement. http://espn.go.com/blog/pac12/post/_/id/23602/pac-12-announces-deal-for-national-regional-networks
     
  20. Jul 20, 2012 #340 of 1671
    BusterAvis

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    I think this almost seals it for DirecTV.
    They have to at least add the National Channel by now.
    And maybe some/all of the regional channels or overflow channels at least.
    Those extra 10 million+ subscribers in addition to the 40+ million before.
    More and more "cable" companies are jumping on, and once Dish Network jumps on, that will in fact seal it for sure.

    I'd say the odds are 95% that DirecTV will have the National network by Sept. 1st.
    The odds are 50% that DirecTV will have the regional network or overflow channels by Sept. 1st.
    And that % only goes up when more cable providers sign on including signing for the regional network(s) in addition to the national network.

    Longhorn Network is a different story.
    That could be 20 cents per subscriber each month, and I still don't think DirecTV would touch it with a 10 foot pole. They do not want "university" networks (in addition to conference networks) to have their own channel. DirecTV and all the cable/satellite companies do not want a bunch of school networks to start up their own network, with pressure coming from all the locals and regional people in that area demanding their carrier to add those channels. It would continue to drive the price up more and more on all customers.
     
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