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My ideal government.

Discussion in 'The OT' started by MarkA, May 25, 2002.

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  1. RichW

    RichW Hall Of Fame/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Of course I was being somewhat facetious, Mark - hence the smilie after the comment. But in truth, everyone wants something different from their government, especially when a need is not being fullfilled.

    One fantasy solution I have toyed with is to have a single-pay system when it comes to taxes. Then let the taxpayer, once the tax is computed, determine the percentage of the tax which would go to each gubbamint bureau. I would venture to guess that more social programs would be funded than are now and that the Pentagon would have to resort to telethons, bake sales, and car washes to raise the money it wanted. :)
     
  2. MarkA

    MarkA God Bless America! DBSTalk Gold Club

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    That's a neat idea. I'm thinking about putting a similar plan in my third draft of my World Union plan.
     
  3. Bogy

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    I think RichW and I should run the world. We'd run it like Jesus really wanted, which woul scare the hell out of some of you guys. :D
     
  4. MarkA

    MarkA God Bless America! DBSTalk Gold Club

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    No way! The world MUST remain democratic!
     
  5. Ray_Clum

    Ray_Clum Hall Of Fame

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    Mark,

    Part of the "Provide for the Common Defense" bit is something about prosperity. The streets and other government issues, i.e. laws preventing murder, theft, etc fall under something in that area. What I don't want the U.S. to become is a bloated, entitlement driven nation, where citizen's expect to have everything handed to them simply because they exist.

    If the gap between the rich and poor widens, so be it. Part of being in a democratic capitalist nation is the ability to change ones lot in life. There are government programs (i.e. Stafford Loan, Pell Grant, etc.) to provide means for poor folk to better themselves (this falls into the prosperity bit from the Preamble). Besides, it is primarily the rich (or middle class) that provides funding for most charities in the U.S., personally, if the goverment didn't take more of my hard earned money for forced distribution of wealth, I'd be more apt to donate more to charity... but that's another rant....

    Discrimination... obviously you're young (18 I believe you said). There has always been, and always will be discrimination. It's a sad fact, but human beings, by nature are discriminatiory, it's how we make decisions. The discrimination may not be by color or by gender, but there may be some people out there that discriminate based on weight of a person, or the church a person attends or the political beliefs that a person holds. So be it, accept it and go on, I'm sure that there is something that you discriminate about... (I believe you said something about Target and Planned Parenthood... you may discriminate against someone who is pro-choice - I'm not, but just wanting to prove a point).

    Food... people need money, one way to get that money is to provide a service or a good that someone needs. Farming is a way to provide that. If you socalise food or health care, the incentive is gone for people to enter into that area of work and it overall suffers.

    I've had the "benefit" of socalized health care - my grandmother used to own a cottage in Canada and I am allergic to pine pollen, when we went up there every summer I mysteriously developed bronchitis or pleuracy (sp?). The Canadian health care system is a joke, why do you think a great deal of Canadians cross the border to see U.S. doctors - it's for the patient care and the expertise that a capitalistic system encourages.

    Enough for now... I gotta go get something to eat...
     
  6. Guest

    I have to go on record in opposition to Ray's ideas. He seems to believe in an Ayn Rand world albeit from a religious perspective. To me that would be a cruel vicious place--a sad jungle of individualism.

    Unfortunately, but truly, people are not created equal. They're only equal under the abstract eyes of God.

    The government makes imperfect attempts to treat people equally which is its mandate. But it's better than nothing. Depending on someone's circumstances food may be more valuable than freedom.
     
  7. Ray_Clum

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    Treating people equally is a fantastic idea. However, it's when government treats "some people more equal than others" that really gets my goat. The best way for the government to treat people equally is to stay out of peoples lives as much as possible.

    People (black, white, Latino, Asian, etc.) generally fit into two groups 1) those willing to strive to get "The American Dream" and 2) those willing to strive to sit on the rear end all day long and do nothing. I have no problem in the government assisting (to a point) those people who are willing to work to better themselves (i.e. Workfare or Stafford Loans/Pell Grants) but I have a major problem in my tax dollars going to some slackjawed loser who's main goal in life is to do nothing constructive.

    BTW, I've never read Ayn Rand so I can't comment on my beliefs somewhat correlating to her's (?)
     
  8. Rage

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    "(YES, Jesus was a socialist)"

    Chapter and verse?

    Ray "I think that the best government is the government that does nothing to affect my way of life"

    Mark "Chaos. The poor would be hurting, the gap between the rich and the poorwould keep widening."

    Huh? This is happening with the big government that you have today.

    "There would be discrimination."

    The government creates discrimination or some would call it reverse discrimination.

    "Heath care would be even harder to get without money than it is now."

    BUt before big government got involved a lot of people could afford a visit to the hospital. In fact, the doctors made house calls at one time. Big government that's controlled by big medical companies is the reason why it's such a mess.

    "Food would be impossible and people would be on the streets, dead from starvation."

    Nonsense.

    "Oh wait, did I say streets? I meant dirt roads, because pavement would fall apart and not be repaired."

    You don't need a big cenrral government to pave roads. All they do is steal your money and then give some of it back (highway funds) to the states with a lot of strings attatched which ruins the sovernty of the states.

    "No way! The world MUST remain democratic!"

    Why? Actually we'd be way better off with an honest king if there is such a thing.
     
  9. Richard King

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    RKing401 <----- an honest King, honest. :lol:
     
  10. RichW

    RichW Hall Of Fame/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Yep, and like me, you were probably Rich at birth.
     
  11. Nick

    Nick Retired, part-time PITA DBSTalk Club

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    The...
    Mark, that is a well thought-out plan, which, if actually implemented, would spell the certain end of the American republic and the freedoms we have enjoyed.

    Thanks, but NO THANKS!


    Nick :smoking:
     
  12. Rage

    Rage Fromer Member

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    Actually, I think I'd rather have Bogy and Rich as a dictators than Mark's anti-christ, socialist system.
     
  13. Guest

    Check her out, dude! She developed a complete philosophy, Objectivism, based on her reactions to living in the fledgling Soviet Union with its stilll argely idealistic Communism in the early '20's. She accepted Communism's atheism but otherwise her philosophy is the direct opposite.
     
  14. Guest

    I surrender.

    I gotta' register! I'm a nitpicker for details; can't type worth a damn; and can't edit my posts.

    "still largely idealistic"
     
  15. Nick

    Nick Retired, part-time PITA DBSTalk Club

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    The...
    could have meant 'argueably'???
     
  16. arjay

    arjay AllStar

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    perhaps largely arguably
     
  17. Mark Lamutt

    Mark Lamutt Your Neighborhood Liasion

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    Now, that wasn't so bad, was it arjay? :D Let me be the first to offically welcome you to DBSTalk! :D :hi:
     
  18. Rick_EE

    Rick_EE Godfather

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    I like it. It doen't look like I would have to work. :evilgrin:
     
  19. MarkA

    MarkA God Bless America! DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Welcome arjay!
     
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