Native Resolution?

Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by doo4usc, Sep 27, 2007.

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  1. RichH25

    RichH25 AllStar

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    Jun 16, 2007
    This is only true is the scaler in the HR20 is better than the one in your TV, which is not the case for the majority of the mid to higher end HDTV's out there (e.g. Panny, Pio, Samsung, Sharp, Sony, etc.)

    The video scaler / processor in the vast majority of 1080P sets currently on the market is superior to what is in the HR20.

    In the end, each end use needs to decide if the PQ improvement is worth the channel switching lag that comes with Native on.

    For my set up, I use native on for my Pio, Panny, and Sharp sets as there is a noticeable PQ improvement in letting the sets do the scaling. I use native off for my Vizio as I do not notice a pq difference.
     
  2. jclarke9999

    jclarke9999 Godfather

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    Feb 9, 2007
    I have an older Sony CRT based 4X3. Native works best for me to avoid issues with the SD channels and pillars.
     
  3. mdernst

    mdernst Legend

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    Dec 24, 2005
    Whether or not you use Native ON or Native OFF is probably as much personal preference as anything else. You may find that the picture on your particular TV looks better being fed 1080i or 720p and elect to turn native off and use whichever looks better on your TV.

    I leave Native ON and select 480p, 720p & 1080i as valid modes supported on my HR20. My main reason is that my TV supports different settings based on the input signal and I have it setup for NO overscan when it gets an HD signal (720p or 1080i). I have it set for 5% overscan when it gets a 480p signal which eleminates the jaggy lines at the top or bottom of the picture on most 4:3 SD sources. This way I don't have to select different overscan settings on the TV everytime I switch from HD to SD - it is automatic based on the input resolution.

    Another person's reasoning for leaving Native ON.

    Mike
     
  4. phat78boy

    phat78boy Hall Of Fame

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    Sep 12, 2007
    You can turn native on, yet uncheck 480i and 480p in the resolutions area. This will upconvert the 480i/p signals yet display natively the HD resolutions. Works good for me on my setups, but this is really a personal preference. Some sets might display 480i/p better natively rather then upconvert.
     
  5. Gmaxx

    Gmaxx Legend

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    Sep 25, 2006
    Fancy meetin you here Terminader. :)

    I have a Vizio myself and I use these same settings. Native ON only 1080i selected.
     
  6. bt-rtp

    bt-rtp Icon

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    Dec 29, 2005
    I am going to experiment with "native on" and 720p & 1080i enabled to see what happens on my Panny 50" plasma. It's a 8th generation, model TH-50PHD8UK so it might have a better scaler that than the HR20. Results tomorrow.
     
  7. vurbano

    vurbano Godfather

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    May 15, 2004
    Absolutely. Your set has a native resolution, either 720p or 1080i. Lets say to set the HR20 to 720p and your set is 720p. All 1080i stations would be converted to 720p by the reciever and sent to your TV. Not bad if the reciever has a better conversion than your set.

    If you set the reciever to output 1080i then your 720p stations would go through a conversion by your reciever robbing the video of its progressive scan qualities and sending it to your 720p set as 1080i where it would be converted back to a very poor 720p picture. There are a lot of scenarios here and the converse is true if you set the reciever to output 720p and your TV has 1080i native resolution.

    so,
    #1 avoid 1080i to 720p to 1080i and 720p to 1080i to 720p.
    #2 match the native resolution of your HDTV if the reciever does a better job of conversion than your HDTV. If not, then output native resolution from the reciever and let your TV do the conversions.
     
  8. millertime

    millertime Godfather

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    Sep 2, 2007
    I use native off and set to 1080i with hdmi. I am using a sony sxrd 50" 1080p. For me this is the best set up. Native shows no difference, in fact I'd say its not as goodand is slow. Even espn looks better I think in 1080i. Again its all personal taste but this is simple and looks great.
     
  9. HDhysteria

    HDhysteria Cool Member

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    Sep 16, 2007
    I need this one explained. If there is only one output resolution selected, then why is there any difference whether native is on or off?
     
  10. Pink Fairy

    Pink Fairy Hall Of Fame

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    Dec 27, 2006
    Personally, I prefer the Native Resolution on because to me, the picture is better in the native resolution.

    However, my husband is not patient and refused to wait the additional 3-5 seconds it took to change channels, so the receiver stays on 1080I all the time.
     
  11. Mixer

    Mixer Hall Of Fame

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    Sep 28, 2006
    I just now changed to Native OFF again after reading throigh some of the more recent comments. I am going to leave it that way for a few days and see if I like it better. So far though in about 15-20 minutes of using it I am not seeing a big difference in the speed of channel changing or PQ.

    We will see.
     
  12. cygnusloop

    cygnusloop Hall Of Fame

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    Jan 26, 2007
    There is no difference.
     
  13. cekowalski

    cekowalski Legend

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    Aug 19, 2007
    Ok, at the risk of sounding foolish... (and with the desire to learn from the experts).

    Doesn't 720p give you 60 fps, while 1080i is basically only 30 fps? If that's the case, I'd think that you would want your set to work with the 720p resolution whenever the content is transmitted that way, because otherwise the 1080i "up" conversion is going to lose some of the motion capability.

    If I understand it correctly, 1080i is basically a 540p picture each 1/60th of a second, but interlace each pair of them together so that you end up with 1080 lines each 1/30th of a second.

    Again, if I understand correctly, 720p gives you 720 lines each 1/60th of a second, or 60fps, and that equates to superior motion resolution but with slightly less picture resolution. Isn't this why ABC and ESPN chose 720p instead of 1080i? Lower resolution, but smoother motion for sports content?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/720p#720p_versus_1080i

    Seems like we defeat the purpose of 720p, if we always convert it to 1080i...
     
  14. smitmw1

    smitmw1 Mentor

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    Sep 26, 2007
    It reallys does depend on the hardware. First off, Plasmas and LCDS, and I assume DLP and SRXD/DILA sets, cannot natively display an interlaced signal. CRTs can and do.

    The first issue is scaling. Strectching a 480i signal to 1080i is the easy part and seems to be done fairly well by the D* boxes. Deinterlacing the signal for display on a plasma etc is totally different.

    I use native and live with the channel change delay to avoid having the receiver do any deinterlacing/reinterlacing. With regard to sports broadcasts, if set to 1080i and the feed is in fact 720p it has to go like this. 720p -> interlace to generate 720i -> scale to 1080i -> send to set which it must then deinterlace (and rescale if necessary 720p/768p native) the signal for display.

    Forcing 720p would require scaling up 480i and deinterlacing or scaling down 1080i and deinterlacing. I know my set ( Pio elite plasma) can do all of those things better than the H20 can. I would think most newer sets can as well.
     
  15. bt-rtp

    bt-rtp Icon

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    Dec 29, 2005
    My video quality is a little better with "native on" and 720p & 1080i enabled.
     
  16. Bofurley

    Bofurley Godfather

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    Oct 11, 2006
    KS
    Vurbano, I would appreciate some info:
    I have a Mitsbishi 65 inch Model WS-65313 rear projection TV.
    The native resolution is set to off, and the following bars in them: 480i, 480p, and 1080i. The 720 has nothing in it.
    My question, should I change my resolution to on, then check everything, or just the 720 and 1080? Or, just leave it as is?.
    Thanks for any information.
     
  17. techrep

    techrep Hall Of Fame

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    Sep 15, 2007
    Good first post. The most important point you make is that all plasmas and LCD's convert to progressive scan native resolution. Each time a signal is converted it is at risk of being degraded. With native on that's one less conversion.
     
  18. TWJR

    TWJR Mentor

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    May 17, 2007
    My dell 37" flat screen has a 720p display. HR20 set to native off; resolution 720. I'm assuming it makes no difference if native is on or off in this setup.
     
  19. JeffBowser

    JeffBowser blah blah blah

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    Dec 21, 2006
    I have the twin to that TV - it is only capable of 480i/p and 1080i. I have experimented until I was sick and tired of it, and I decided that setting my DirecTV box to native off and 480p/1080i output only looked best to me.

    For my LCD's, whose native is 720p, I also prefer to set my box to native off and 720p output only. I have not done so much extensive experimentation with these TV's, because I don't really believe you can humanly see much difference on smaller TV's (these are 32"'ers).


     
  20. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Dec 9, 2006
    I use Native because I think the SD channels look better using my TV's scaler as opposed to the D* scaler. This is where there is the most scaling trying to make something look good out of something that doesn't.
    If your TV can show both 720p & 1080i then one these would also need to be scaled by your TV to fit the screen. FWIW
     
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