New FCC Set-top rules coming - maybe????

Discussion in 'General Satellite Discussion' started by Herdfan, Nov 9, 2015.

  1. Nov 9, 2015 #1 of 15

    Herdfan Well-Known Member

    Mar 18, 2006
    1 person likes this.
  2. Nov 9, 2015 #2 of 15

    trh This Space for Sale

    Nov 2, 2007
    NE FL
    But another part of the article mentioned making the boxes more compatible between providers.

    Just think if you could buy a 5-tuner DVR that would work on Dish, DIRECTV and all the cable companies (and even OTA?). Some would probably find that well worth the cost.
  3. Nov 9, 2015 #3 of 15

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

    Feb 14, 2013
    It really comes down to whether the cable companies will be successful in holding off a requirement to support Vidipath. The Vidipath standard was created by the same company that created Directv's RVU, and as they have identical software stacks they are very similar and it is even possible they are the same thing under different names.

    If they had to go that way, then Comcast, TWC, Directv/AT&T, Dish, and the rest of the smaller cable companies would provide you a "gateway" box that would do whatever tuning/decryption is necessary and distribute video streams encrypted using DTCP-IP. A compliant 'client' device (a small box similar to a Genie client, Chromecast or eventually built into all TVs) could decode that, and it would show the provider's UI. There would also be an option for a smarter device like a Tivo to receive the streams and present them with their own GUI - this is probably one of the things the cable companies really object to (and Directv would probably object to as well) because they can't force ads on you in the guide etc. if you aren't seeing their crappy UI. Without such a requirement, Tivo would likely go out of business or at minimum would cease selling directly to consumers since without their UI and feature set there's no reason to choose a Tivo over a cable company DVR.

    You'd have the option of either owning your own client devices or renting from your provider, one or more of the client devices could have a hard drive so you can record, you could presumably get multiple gateways (at least from some providers, I doubt it would be a requirement) if you needed more tuners, so you wouldn't lose anything you had today but you'd have a lot more options. You could have clients that connect to multiple gateways, if you had both cable and Directv, and switching providers would be as simple as swapping out the old provider's gateway for a new one. All the client devices you own, including DVRs, would continue working fine (though presumably you'd lose all the recordings from the old provider, not sure how that would work)

    Hopefully consumers will win this one. There's a chance we might, since this FCC commissioner doesn't seem to be as much in the pocket of cable companies as was originally assumed (since he used to work in the cable industry)
  4. SeaBeagle

    SeaBeagle Legend

    May 7, 2006
    Purchase these receivers from ebay. Much cheaper. Just check the receiver number to make sure the receiver can be activated without having to pay off some previous subscribers bill.

    Sent from my iPad 4 128GB using DBSTalk mobile application.
  5. Bedford11

    Bedford11 Member

    Aug 21, 2015
    It's the UI (user interface) that it all boils down to.

    The new Satellites being shot up are IP based
    All the streaming services are IP based
    All the big cable giants offer their product streaming over the internet now
    Both AT&T/Direct TV and Dish have a new UI ready to go ( suspect these to be compatible with the new format)
    DVR's will be in the cloud not in a set top box or more than likely everything will be on demand.
    AT&T says they want to reduce in home equipment
    I see a universal, cheap, subscriber owned small set top box with universal search coming quickly
    It's time to integrate sat, cable, roku's 3000 channels and any of the myriad of other online offerings into one searchable unit
  6. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator

    Apr 17, 2003
    UIs are window dressing. It is the codecs, chipsets and processors that handle signal reception and display - the UI is just the interface that allows the user to control the rest of the receiver.
  7. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

    Nov 13, 2006
    Uh, say what?

    Explain to me how the new satelites are ip based vs the other satelites please....first I have ever heard of that...

    And I absolutely hate the idea of cloud based DVRs, and will never work for everyone so DVRs in homes will still exsit.
    1 person likes this.
  8. slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

    Feb 14, 2013
    He's out there with that claim (or more likely parroting claims he's read that are out there) There's no such thing as an "IP based satellite" since as you are well aware satellites are just amplifying and rebroadcasting what is sent to them. The packet encoding satellites typically using for video is based on a MPEG transport stream (which Directv uses) but newer standards allow a generic transport stream, which permits IP packetization. There's no real advantage to using that if you are sending video, it is just an additional wrapper for the MPEG data. True IP is a two way protocol, which is of course impossible for Directv's satellites since Directv dishes are one way only. Using IP framing for MPEG transport streams buys you nothing so I don't see any particular reason why Directv would want to switch to that.
  9. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

    Nov 13, 2006
    Yeah which is why I said that and was waiting to see what he was going to claim on it. ;)
  10. Rickt1962

    Rickt1962 Legend

    Jul 17, 2012
  11. lee635

    lee635 Hall Of Fame

    Apr 17, 2002
    Maybe the original poster meant something like UDP (User Datagram protocol) or some other connectionless protocol and simply mis-spoke? I'm not an expert in satellite transmission, but am thinking that to provide some error checking and parity files, then straight mpeg data won't work (or will it?). Also, not everything on small dish is mpeg, there is some data, such as program guide. Just saying, I don't think his comment was that out-of-line for the rather strong reply.

    Thanks for all the great info on this site! :)

  12. slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

    Feb 14, 2013
    Satellite broadcasts use a ton of error correction, but it is at a higher layer than MPEG (or IP would be, if that was used) Directv broadcasts at a rate of exactly 60 Mbps on a typical transponder carrying HD channels, and slightly over 1/3 of it is error correction overhead.
  13. DTVDiscount

    DTVDiscount New Member

    Aug 10, 2016
    Should the possibility of a non-proprietary box in the future prevent anyone from locking into a new two year agreement for new DTV equipment? I wouldn't want to purchase a DTV DVR right now but I'll take the free equipment upgrade because it will take a while to shake out.
  14. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

    Nov 13, 2006
    No. it'd be years before anyone even made a box, if that entire idea comes to fruition, and someone thinks it'd be worth it anyway. I think it's fools gold now to be honest...
  15. phrelin

    phrelin Hall Of Fame DBSTalk Club

    Jan 18, 2007
    Per the thread I started on Friday FCC retreats on set-top box proposal the whole original concept has changed according to the article referenced in that thread:

    As I noted in my second post in that thread:

    Regarding satellite as a service system, if you cannot get adequate high speed internet through a "wired" system or a cellular wireless system, there are two satellite internet service providers that likely will work on becoming financially competitive for the streaming TV market if they hope to prosper.

    In the meantime, Dish is focused on being competitive with the Flex Pack and no charge for the first box, though in fact you are paying $12/mo for DVR service. But that has to be considered as the equivalent of an ISP charge plus an "ad-free-by-skipping-commercials" add-on.

    Streaming TV will not kill satellite or cable TV, but the whole box question has become moot IMHO.

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