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New HDGUI and the DVR's SD outputs

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by bishoph, Dec 6, 2011.

  1. Dec 18, 2011 #21 of 314
    jes

    jes Icon

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    a new HD RF modular will be pricey... :nono:
    "message" is a subtle understatement... [snip] and is not exitable. My biggest objection is why the warning box needs to be displayed every time we press the program controls, Play, Pause, FF, etc.. :confused:
     
  2. Dec 18, 2011 #22 of 314
    DBSNewbie

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  3. Dec 18, 2011 #23 of 314
    DBSNewbie

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    This is the message I get on my H25. What receiver is shown in your pic? It must be different for different receivers. Since our H25 had been the only receiver which was used for both SD and HD at the same time (it's on a converter now) that was the only message I had seen. And, it only stays on screen for a couple of seconds, if not shorter.
     

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  4. Dec 18, 2011 #24 of 314
    tigerwillow1

    tigerwillow1 Legend

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    When you switch to 480i to use the gui on a SD television, does the gui run at the new faster speed, or do we go back to the slo...oow GUI?
     
  5. Dec 18, 2011 #25 of 314
    Scott Kocourek

    Scott Kocourek Well-Known Member

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    Everything is the same, it just changes the resolution.
     
  6. Dec 29, 2011 #26 of 314
    jes

    jes Icon

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    oops... my screen capture was not from NR... the one before looked like yours and IIRC only stayed up for 5 seconds. ... guess I'll be getting some unpleasant reminders from the moderators... :(

    SD warning screen
     
  7. Dec 31, 2011 #27 of 314
    rwmair

    rwmair Godfather

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    I've been following this thread, and the 40-or-more-page other thread on the HD gui rollout for the last week since discovering the "not-HD" message on my SD TVs once my HR23 got the GUI upgrade. Despite the fact I have a ChannelPlus modulator and other equipment sitting behind my receivers, I was resigned to getting the component-composite converter also - until I just spent 15 mins toggling thru the options - and now I'm confused.

    I have a HR23 that is connected to a Sony 1080p LED-LCD TV via HDMI cable. The composite and L/R audio outs go to the modulator and that feeds other TV's in the house via coax cable. The HR23 is also set to Native-On; Original Format, as this had seemed to guarantee I'd get back to 1080i HD anytime I switched to a HD channel after we had watched something on a SD-only channel (eg BBC America).

    At some stage in the past week, my wife had pressed the EXIT button when prompted on one of the SD TV's, and the unit had set itself to 480p only. However I didn't see a big effect on the main HDTV.

    So, sitting in front of the Sony HDTV just now, I paused a HD program (some college football on ESPN) and cycled thru the resolution settings by pushing the front panel buttons of the HR23. The DirecTV and ESPN logos on the channel banner or progress bar were noticeably degraded when the receiver was switched to 480p, however the broadcast picture wasn't. I could just barely make out some slightly increased fuzziness in the text on the ESPN ticker at the bottom of the screen, or a player's jersey number, when on 480p compared to 1080i. But this was while sitting on the floor, 12 inches from the TV screen. When I moved to a normal viewing distance, I couldn't tell the pictures apart. However, I then changed the channel to a SD-only channel (BBC America) and the broadcast picture was highly degraded compared to the ESPN picture - as one would expect for a 480 signal on a HDTV. With the receiver set to 480p, I had expected the football on ESPN to look as fuzzy and degraded as Top Gear on BBC America - but it wasn't.

    So what is going on here? Is my eyesight poor, or is something else happening when I view a HD channel with the receiver set to 480p rather than a SD channel with the same resolution setting on the receiver?? Is native-on having some effect on the HD channels? Given what I've seen, I'm tempted to just leave the receiver set to 480p only all the time (and not bother with the component-composite converter for SD feed) even tho I realize this is tantamount to heresy!

    A couple of other notes where my experience differs to those above:

    - when the receiver was set up properly (to output 1080i signal) and we hit the exit button, the receiver would revert to 480p (only), not 480i.

    - once this was done, the "format" button on the remote could not help with toggling resolution settings. As the receiver is set to 480p ONLY after pressing the exit button (and 1080i is deselected in the resolution settings), the format button was no help as it only cycles thru the screen-size settings for 480p (presumably because I have "original format" selected in video settings), but won't switch to any other resolution - because 480p is now the only resolution checked in resolution settings!

    - after setting the receiver to 480p via the exit button, I could not get it to return to 1080i again with the exit button. Even tho when using the exit button to drop down to 480p the receiver would flash up the message saying "hit exit again to return to previous settings", this would not work for me. The receiver would just issue its bleep noise you hear whenever pressing any button that is not active at that time. This is an ultra-pain, as the alternative to reconfigure the receiver to 1080i takes about 15 button presses to navigate from the menu thru to settings to HDTV Settings to receiver resolutions, with the final press of "info" to confirm that we're back to 1080i. So all of this, along with the picture experiment above, has me thinking of just leaving the receiver set to 480p only at all times.

    You've got to love technology "upgrades"!!

    Comments?
     
  8. Jan 6, 2012 #28 of 314
    RBTO

    RBTO Legend

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    I just got the new GUI and have my HR20 receiver driving two displays, one an HD projector, and the other, an SD. With the old interface, the receiver could output an HD (1080i) signal using the HDMI output (which goes to my projector) while simultaneously outputting an SD (480i) signal on the NTSC composite output (which goes to my SD display). Everything worked in its respective resolution.

    The new interface is capable of the same with a major exception. It will not do the channel list and some other functions on the composite (SD) output while in HD mode (it does, however, show a picture on the SD with the banner indicating that the resolution needs to be changed - the banner disappears after about 20 seconds but comes back any time a remote control function is activated such as a channel change). Of course, changing the resolution (by holding the EXIT button down a few seconds) makes the SD output work, but the HDMI output resolution is also downrezzed. It isn't too apparent since my projector uprezzes the image to 1080 again but there are notable artifacts and fine details are gone in the HD display, so goodbye true HD when in the SD mode.

    I'm fortunate that I only use one display or the other and not both at the same time, so I can switch between resolutions with the EXIT button, but using the EXIT button to change back-and-forth is a significant complication the new GUI introduces. Those desiring both SD and HD outputs at the same time (with a functioning channel list, etc.) will need to leave the resolution in HD and come off the HDMI or component output with a converter which would feed their SD display. For those folks, this is a serious flaw which should be addressed in a future D* update!

    I don't know the technical in-and-outs of the programming to achieve the new GUI, but if simultaneous HD and SD outputs were formerly obtainable under the old GUI, they should be possible with the new one unless there's a hardware problem that prevents this.
     
  9. Jan 6, 2012 #29 of 314
    sfpegasus

    sfpegasus Cool Member

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    This is all fine well and good if you're not using the component port for another TV. I happen to be using all available ports.

    I did find a shorter workaround that might work for others. Press "1" on the remote to tune to channel 1 (SD channel) then you can bring up the guide without further hassle and without messing up the previous channel resolution.

    At a minimum they need to give us an override for this annoying 20 second "feature"
     
  10. Jan 6, 2012 #30 of 314
    Stuart Sweet

    Stuart Sweet The Shadow Knows!

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    RBTO, I understand your umbrage, and the umbrage of others here, but I would simply suggest you temper your expectations. This is not likely to be resolved at this point.

    The old UI was always 480p and was upscaled to HD resolution. The new UI is native at all resolutions and upscaling does not take place. This is done to increase speed and legibility.

    DIRECTV folks have told me that among the entire subscriber base, the need to use HD and SD at the same time is fairly rare, and the desire for a faster, more legible UI is almost universal.

    Presuming for a moment that it isn't reasonable to expect that you can get both... which would you choose? More speed for everyone or retaining features for a few? If you said more speed for everyone, our friends at DIRECTV with their huge marketing and data gathering budgets agree with you.

    There is a solution, as detailed over and over... simply buy a component to composite converter. We buy things all the time to keep our equipment up to date. Just buy that.
     
  11. Jan 6, 2012 #31 of 314
    Stuart Sweet

    Stuart Sweet The Shadow Knows!

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    There is an override... press and hold {EXIT} and you will be changed to 480p resolution.
     
  12. Jan 6, 2012 #32 of 314
    sfpegasus

    sfpegasus Cool Member

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    You misunderstand my post. If DirecTv is going to insist on this, give us the option of suppressing the 20 second message. I'd rather nothing happen on the SD display than tolerate a 20 second message nearly every time a remote button is pressed. We can figure out a way to get to the guide if we need to.

    But, but, but ..... the component port is already in use.
     
  13. Jan 6, 2012 #33 of 314
    JohnDG

    JohnDG Legend

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    What's the resolution output got to do with the speed of the menus?

    Also: the 480p exit button doesn't work when trying to get back to 1080i. I have to turn the receiver off/on before I am able to toggle back to HD.

    jdg
     
  14. Jan 6, 2012 #34 of 314
    RBTO

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    Stuart Sweet said:
    RBTO, I understand your umbrage, and the umbrage of others here, but I would simply suggest you temper your expectations. This is not likely to be resolved at this point.

    I really don't have any umbrage, only a sense of inconvenience that I can deal with. For others that use both SD & HD outputs simultaneously, it is more than an inconvenience.

    I don't expect this to be resolved at this point, knowing DIRECTVs history, but I should be able to hold onto the hope that they will address this in the future and they shouldn't stonewall such a request with some of their standard excuses (not practical, no demand for such, etc., etc.).


    DIRECTV folks have told me that among the entire subscriber base, the need to use HD and SD at the same time is fairly rare, and the desire for a faster, more legible UI is almost universal.

    I can totally believe the latter, but it appears the former is may not be true, judging from the response in this thread and others (and how did they come to that conclusion being they can't detect the receiver configuration of end users?).

    Presuming for a moment that it isn't reasonable to expect that you can get both... which would you choose? More speed for everyone or retaining features for a few? If you said more speed for everyone, our friends at DIRECTV with their huge marketing and data gathering budgets agree with you.

    That's a presumption. The presumption that both might be possible also exists.

    There is a solution, as detailed over and over... simply buy a component to composite converter. We buy things all the time to keep our equipment up to date. Just buy that.

    I agree totally. That's what I would do if I used both SD & HD at the same time. My only intent originally was to point out the flaw in the new GUI, and leave room for DIRECTV to address that. If that's truly not possible, I'm more than willing to accept the new GUI as is since it does offer excellent advantages in both speed and clarity for users. However, if the flaw is addressable, then our friends at DIRECTV should have no qualms in working towards that goal.
     
  15. Jan 6, 2012 #35 of 314
    carl6

    carl6 Moderator Staff Member DBSTalk Club

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    I'm one of those that use the SD outputs simultaneously with the HD outputs, and this change is an inconvenience for me. However, I can tell you that DIRECTV is keeping close track of customer response, both in forums (here and on their own forums), and from their call centers. They did expect some amount of negative response on this issue, and so far it appears that the actual negative feedback is less than what they predicted (that from a reliable source). Assuming that is true (the negative response is at or below the predicted level), it certainly is not going to result in any change.

    This also tells me that from a business perspective, DIRECTV considered the various options and made a business decision that was best for them. They recognized what Stuart pointed out - a large percentage of customers were not satisfied with the old UI, that these changes would address those issues, but at the expense of a very small percentage of customers that would be negatively impacted.

    I'm also told by sources at DIRECTV that they cannot offer both HD and SD instances of the UI at the same time without a significant performance impact. I don't know whether or not they could offer an SD only UI to both HD and SD outputs, but another of Stuart's comments suggests that might also be an issue (the SD output would have to be upscaled for HD output) which gets back to possible performance issues.

    So for all of us who are impacted by this change, the ball is in our court. We can adjust (using an adapter for example or adding additional receivers), or we can select another service provider that better meets individual needs. There is no single right answer/solution for everyone, it must be an individual choice. As for me, I'll adapt. I like DIRECTV.
     
  16. Jan 6, 2012 #36 of 314
    sfpegasus

    sfpegasus Cool Member

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    Ok, we get it. It's a performance thing. But does it take a 20 second graphic on the SD outputs to hammer the point home? :nono:

    I think that's what is most annoying to us - that constant graphic! We can probably live with workarounds to get a guide on the SD ports - we don't need reminders.

    Let's compromise and give those of us who want it a method to suppress the graphic. We'll figure out the rest along the way.
     
  17. Jan 6, 2012 #37 of 314
    DBSNewbie

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    A component splitter will do the trick or (if you want something powered),

    you can use a component distribution amplifier (1 in, 4 out - with audio), which runs about $70 on Amazon.com

    I use that to distribute HD in my system and it works great.

    I've also got a Component to Composite converter on the above mentioned Component Amp for use on a SD Monitor in the kitchen nook. No complaints there either.

    By the way, if the $70 is a bit too pricey, I'm thinking that a standard AV distribution amp like this (red, white, yellow RCA) could be used instead (to split and distribute only the red, blue, and green of the component video cable). Those are about $40 and possibly cheaper on sites like monoprice, etc.

    Just be sure to keep track of which color of the component cable you had plugged in and match it up with the corresponding output.
     
  18. Jan 6, 2012 #38 of 314
    sfpegasus

    sfpegasus Cool Member

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    ^^ Point(s) well taken. I thought my compromise above was a good one, though. Silly thing is -- the Sony TV in the kitchen is HD, I just happen to be using it on the composite port so I wouldn't have any additional hardware to mess with.
     
  19. Jan 6, 2012 #39 of 314
    RunnerFL

    RunnerFL Well-Known Member

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    It is not a flaw. DirecTV did this on purpose.
     
  20. Jan 6, 2012 #40 of 314
    RunnerFL

    RunnerFL Well-Known Member

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    Then get another receiver to feed one of the TVs.
     

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