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New issue with receiver

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by JeffBowser, Dec 21, 2009.

  1. JeffBowser

    JeffBowser blah blah blah

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    Dec 21, 2006
    I know at least 995 of you are familiar with this thread: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=169655

    That problem was solved by replacing the DVR.

    Sunday afternoon, the same thing started happening with the DVR in my bedroom. Since this week I am not laid up sick with the flu, I began advanced debug before posting for help (nothing like being accused of being an idiot simply for fishing for ideas in advance). I started with:

    1. Normal restart
    2. unplug for half hour, restart
    3. replace the BBCs
    4. Swap receiver location
    5. Remove my signal locker
    6. Remove the signal locker AND WB68, running straight from the dish to the receiver

    None of that changed the issue. If I run a SINGLE line, I get a signal lock. If I run ANY two lines of the 4, one of the two tuners will not lock the signal, and the signal is always from transponders in either the 103c or 99c locations (will show zero, and signal meter will show it flashing 94%+ back to zero). The rest of the signals are fine, as are the rest of my receivers.

    Knowing full well last week the issue was the tuners, the debug may have been over the top, but isn't it highly coincidental I lose two HR2x series receivers within a week of each other?

    For those that don't want to read the other thread, the issue is, after a couple hours, the HR21 will start pixelating, going gray, briefly issue a 771, go back to normal picture, and cycle through this endlessly, but only on national HD channels (but not all).

    I know I'm going to have to call DirecTV again and make use of my protection plan, but I am fishing for anyone that has seen anything like this, and if it is remotely possible that something in my setup can cause this. This setup is 2 years old in its current configuration (signal locker, wire plant, new dish, and last device added).

    Lastly, for those familiar with the other thread, this time I am going to start the issue on the phone, at home, and with enough time available to bring it to conclusion in a single phone call. It is clear to me that I cannot trust DirecTV to keep\read notes from prior e-mails or calls and do a multi-stage debug.
     
  2. BattleZone

    BattleZone Hall Of Fame

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    Nov 13, 2007
    I'd say the most likely problem is the switch (either the WB68 if you have one, otherwise the switch in the LNB). The second most likely is a problem with the other receiver. Sometimes when a receiver is dying, it will sent out high or incorrect voltages that cause problems for OTHER receivers on the system. It's a rare problem and not easy to figure out, but I've seen it a few times.
     
  3. JeffBowser

    JeffBowser blah blah blah

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    Dec 21, 2006
    I eliminated the WB68 and ran the lines straight to the receiver. In this debug step, one or two lines from the dish were connected straight through to the receiver, and the other two or three lines were disconnected from anything. I tried all 4 lines separately, and they worked fine separately. Run any two in a pair in any possible combination, and one tuner would lose signal.

     
  4. hilmar2k

    hilmar2k Hall Of Fame

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    Sounds like a problem with the switch in the dish.
     
  5. rudeney

    rudeney Hall Of Fame

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    Jeff, do you have any other DVR's in your system? If so, then here's my suggestion. Isolate the system to just this one problematic DVR. Connect it straight to the LNB with no other receivers on the LNB. If that solves the problem, then it's not the LNB or this DVR. If the problem persists, then disconnect this DVR and connect only another DVR to the LNB. If that DVR has no problems, then it's the other DVR that's bad. Otherwise, it's the LNB. Now, if you only have problems with the DVR when other receivers are connected, then it start with a good working configuration and start connecting individual tuners until it fails, then you'll know which tuner is the culprit.

    I know this is a lot of work, but the best way to figure out what is wrong is to isolate each component.
     
  6. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    With a Sonora locker in place, all voltages from the receivers are "out of the picture", except to have the WB68 switch.
     
  7. JeffBowser

    JeffBowser blah blah blah

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    Dec 21, 2006
    I eliminated the WB68 and ran the lines straight to the receiver. In this debug step, one or two lines from the dish were connected straight through to the receiver, and the other two or three lines were disconnected from anything. I tried all 4 lines separately, and they worked fine separately. Run any two in a pair in any possible combination, and one tuner would lose signal.

    Given these steps, I would conclude that the issue isn't with another device on the system.... Does a non-SWM dish have a switch? I was under the impression that the Slimline 5 did not...

     
  8. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    All dishes with four outputs have a 4-way switch.
    The HR20s have a fairly crappy power supply and I'd guess yours have finally gone over the hill.
    I know you've work this for a long time and everyone here wants to be the troubleshooter.
    Get another receiver, ring it out before you send the old one back.
    This will give you "another piece in the puzzle" to play with.
     
  9. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Just so we're all on the same page here

    Dish
    ||||
    Sonora
    ||||
    WB68
    ||||
    receivers

    If any one receiver/tuner can get all the channels/SATs, then any problem is from the WB68 to the receiver with the problem, since the Sonora is driving the LNBs & the dish switch.
    If the problem exits with the reciever connected straight to the dish, and the dish/LNB/Switch is good, then "it's the receiver/coax".
     
  10. rudeney

    rudeney Hall Of Fame

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    OK, so it's either the receiver or the LNB (and yes, the LNB has a built-in 4-output switch). It does sound like another failed DVR, Jeff.
     
  11. Kaelin

    Kaelin New Member

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    I don't have any experience on the HR receivers but this sounds like the problem I had on one of my old SD DirecTivos last year. I swapped two units out the problem moved with the receiver. I didn't want to lose the Tivo at the time and it was one I owned anyway so I couldn't just replace it so I ended up just disabling the one tuner on the receiver and never had another issue with it. Of course then I only had 1 tuner but I moved it to the TV that wasn't used as often so it wasn't as big of an issue at the time.
     
  12. JeffBowser

    JeffBowser blah blah blah

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    OK, thanks guys. I'll open a case (sigh) with DirecTV this evening. Just seems so coincidental that two HR's in two weeks do this. Further, I spoke to my father in law, unbeknown to me he had the exact same problem with his HR 3 weeks ago. Gad. They replaced his, too. Took them two weeks to get his done.
     
  13. Yoda-DBSguy

    Yoda-DBSguy Hall Of Fame

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    A Galaxy...
    As all the others mentioned, it seems like a lnb (and it's internal switch) that is causing the issue.

    I'd have the lnb itself if not the entire dish replaced.
     
  14. sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    You could try the, "Now, it won't turn on...just send a new unit." ;)
     
  15. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Sorry, but with a Sonora locker driving the dish & one tuner working, this rules out the LNB/switch.
    There would need to be multiple failures of the WB68 & the LNB/switch to have the same results that Jeff is having, where there is only one failure mode if it's the receiver [though two are now doing this, but at least one has been troublesome for a long time].
     
  16. Yoda-DBSguy

    Yoda-DBSguy Hall Of Fame

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    A Galaxy...
    I disagree. I have replaced several bad LNBs over the years for customers that only show an issue when 2 or more tuners are simultaneously in use. The same LNBs worked fine when there was only one line attached (or in use) at the time.

    Seeing that everything else has been swapped out or disconnected (thus being ruled out as the cause); it only stands to reason that the LNB is indeed the root of his problem.
     
  17. JeffBowser

    JeffBowser blah blah blah

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    I could, and I have before. If I take this route, though I won't say so up here. Got drilled in my last thread for using a similar tactic to try to break through the endless cycle of "let's start from the beginning" every time I called them.

    In all likelihood, I will ring them up tonight and step patiently through their rigid script until they run out of options and either schedule a tech, or ship a receiver. At least this is the bedroom unit, it's not as watched as other one I replaced a week ago.

    VOS - thanks for your input, you have a great ability to distill things down to the essence.

     
  18. JeffBowser

    JeffBowser blah blah blah

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    This is new info to me - about the two or more tuners in use. Let me throw another variable at you I have not yet mentioned in this thread - the problem is not evident until the unit has been on for a couple hours or so. It all works fine on first power up for a couple hours. Of course, with the Sonora, the dish is always energized, with each of 4 lines locked to a certain tone\voltage....

     
  19. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    I would agree IF there wasn't a Sonora locker being used. Since the Sonora takes over driving the LNBs and fixes the switch to all four outputs, if one receiver can get all the SATs through the WB68, then each LNB is being driven and all RF is coming down the four coax lines.

    Maybe this would help: http://www.sonorastore.com/510.html
     
  20. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Let me throw this back:

    If you leave the Sonora powered up, and reset the DVR, does it work again until its been running for a couple of hours?
     

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