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Discussion in 'General DISH™ Discussion' started by SirChadwick, Jan 21, 2004.
Lt. Commander Worf would be proud to add a Square Shooter to his hand weapons collection.
All my local DT stations are on one tower
http://www.fox47.com/ scroll down and click on the DTV icon, it shows a picture of all my DT stations, antennaweb.org says those towers are about 25-30 miles away. I tried an omnidirectional antenna and it only gave me about 3 DT stations. I was wondering if an indoor antenna like the Zenith silver would be an option. THanks
Over the last 2 weeks I have been exchanging emails with an Engineer at Winegard regarding an OTA antenna for my application/location. I have also been asking similar questions to the reps at Solid Signal. I will admit that I have gotten some similar info/feedback but also some differing suggestions.
The Winegard Engineer felt that the Square Shooter would work well for my situation. I live about 55 miles from LA's (straight line) digital towers (Mt Wilson) and he felt that the SS1000 and a pre-amp would work fine.
The rep at Solid Signal felt that a Channel MAster 4228 would be best for my situation.
I do not know which way I am going to go but I have a feeling I will opt for the Square Shooter, an AP 2880 pre-amp, and a CA 8800 band seperator since I will also be using a PR 6000 FM antenna for my A/V reciever.
Hey if the SS1000 doesn't work at least I can say that I gave it a shot and will return it and go with the next option the Winegard Engineer gave me which was the PR 4400 or PR 7042.
At that distance, I'd go with the PR8800(CA8800), and add the pre-amp later, if it was necessary.
At this stage in the Square Shooter's development, I think the Winegard engineers are going to recommend it to just about anybody who needs anything, but, from a purely technical point of view, it sees like a poor choice from among Winegard's own product line for your situation.
Last I knew, your market still received one of the major network's digital signal on channel 12 and it was broadcast from a different tower location. Is that still the case? If so, how far away is the channel 12 transmitter, and about how many degrees east or west of your line to Mt. Wilson?
If you need channel 12 and if it is within maybe twenty to thirty degrees of Mt. Wilson but distant from you, then the PR-7042 might serve you well, but it is a monstrosity. The Square Shooter has a quirky VHF highband response, that, believe it or not, aims about forty-five degrees to the left of its main boresight and has a front-to-back ratio of under 3dB and Winegard doesn't even publish its gain in that band, so if you use a Square Shooter, a Channel Master 4224 or even a PR-4400 or PR-8800, then your needs for channel 12 might best be met with a VHF ten element high band antenna that you can get from Winegard for about forty bucks. I think their part number for that high band antenna is YA-1713, but I'm not certain of that.
The PR8800 will probably work for VHF channel 12 to some degree, since it is close to the low UHF band in wavelength, although it will not be as good as as one close to the exact wavelength. At 50 miles distance from the station, it might be fine. You can always add the custom VHF antenna later, as well as the amplifier.
Do you remember the stacked conical? The Channel Master and the Winegard's are a variation of this proven design. Stacked conicals used to be used for VHF in the 1960's. You can still see old derelict ones on rusting masts and chimney mounts all over the US.
Sure. We had one on our house in Dover, New Hampshire, with a rotor. We were sixty miles from Boston (with favorable, coastal terrain), maybe fifty miles from Manchester, NH and fifty or so miles from the transmitters in Portland, Maine and atop Mount Washington. It meant that we could watch 3 ABCs, 2 CBSs and 2 NBCs. Which was actually a good deal during school vacations, because they ran their own twenty year old movies and thirty year old cartoons rather than network programming in the afternoons.
Dover was a lower middle-class community back then. Hardly anyone could have afforded a Yagi or Log periodic antenna. I've never actually measured the elements on a conical, but I would guess that the longer top and bottom elements, which are maybe ten degrees off the horizontal plane, form lowband bowties, and the smaller, horizontal elements at the top and bottom must have functioned as high-band dipoles or bowties.
On the antennaweb.org site I am not showing a station 12 in my list of stations. The closest I show is station 11, 11.1, and 13. I am not sure which channel you are speaking of.
All of my "local" digital stations that are of any interest to me are
KLCS-DT 58.1 PBS LOS ANGELES CA 269° 53.7
KPXN-DT 38 PAX SAN BERNARDINO CA 269° 53.4
KCET-DT 28.1 PBS Los Angeles CA 269° 53.6
KABC-DT 7.1 ABC Los Angeles CA 269° 53.9
KTTV-DT 11.1 FOX Los Angeles CA 269° 53.7
KRCA-DT 62.1 IND RIVERSIDE CA 269° 53.4
KNBC-DT 4.1 NBC Los Angeles CA 269° 53.8
KJLA-DT 57.1 IND VENTURA CA 269° 53.9
KCAL-DT 9.1 IND LOS ANGELES CA 269° 53.9
KCBS-DT 2.1 CBS Los Angeles CA 270° 54.3
KTLA-DT 5.1 WB Los Angeles CA 269° 53.9
I don't see a "12" in that listing at all...
I am trying to stay away from a "monster" antenna mounted to the peak of my roof out of respect for all my neighbors who all either have cable or satellite. I could place a HUGE antenna in my attic space and just point it towards LA but I feel a smaller antenna mounted to the peak of my roof (the Squareshooter) with a pre-amp might be a good starting point and if that doesn't work then move to the bigger one in my attic.
Antennaweb says your digital channel 11.1 is actually broadcast on UHF channel 65. Perhaps that is the station that originally had a digital assignment on channel 12, or perhaps I am confusing it with another problem faced in another part of California. For what it is worth, channel 65 can only be a temporary assignment, since all channels above 51 are supposed to be auctioned off and allocated to some other use when the analog-to-digital transition is completed.
Yeah I know that many digital channels may or will be changing from UHF to VHF or vica versa in the future as the transition from analog to digital happens. But for now I need a digital HD solution that all of my neighbors won't bawk at (since we are all good neighbors).
As the analog to digital trans happens I know that I may need to modify/change my OTA antenna when that time arrives.
Since 55 miles is considered fringe for UHF, I'd not consider any antenna less tha a Winegard PR8800 or a HD9095P. Any lesser antenna will be a disappointment. UHF signals are much more subject to attenuation than vhf signals, so I'd never put any antenna in the attic at 55 miles away.
We have a channel 12 in Northern California, KNTV transmitting from San Jose. It has been a problem to some because of it's location. Many people in San Francisco are unable to receive it because of the terrain. KNTV has a mirror transmission from the East Bay on channel 49-2. That expanded it's ability to reach more TVs.
Do any of you guys know where I can find some info on topo maps that will show me how I am situated in regards to Mount Wilson where all of my local digital channels are coming from ?
I want to see if I have a direct line of sight to that location but I guess topo's would be the best way to find that out...right ?
Any recommendations for an OTA antenna that does well with multipath? Are all of these going to be about the same? I live about 8 miles outside Seattle where we have a buttload of hills and big trees. Sadly, no line of sight to the main towers (I'm lucky to have line of sight to the E* birds ) unless I feel like climbing a 110' Douglas Fir in the backyard...
Go to www.delorme.com
You want to buy the California Atlas and Gazetteer. It is available at most large book stores like Walden's or Barnes and Noble for $16.95 or less.
Aren't there any online resources for topo maps ?
Check out AVSFourm.com, find the thread titled "Seattle Changes" post a note with your address and ask Quarque to give you the low down on your odds. He's got some nice topo mapping facilities and is also a great resource when it comes to selecting options for your antenna. Good luck and let me know how your journey ends up. I'm still tweaking an antenna install myself. Some of our local programming is a real treat, so I hope you get up and running quickly.
Try terraserver.microsoft.com. In addition to 1 meter resolution images of pretty much the entire country, they should have topo graphs from the USGS for the area you are looking for.
Wow: great pointer, thanks!
For folks outside Seattle, the Quarque user described above is using Delorme's "TopoUSA" mapping software to plot a topographical route profile between the desired service address and local HDTV broadcast towers. If you have line-of-sight (or close) you have much better odds of getting good signal versus the poor sod who's sitting with a 700ft hill in the way. It's not super-scientific, but based on feedback in the AVS Forum, it's good enough to tell you whether to try floating an antenna or wait for HD off cable/DBS.
As luck would have it, I have TopoUSA already for my GPS games: other folks with this software might want to use this method to plot their own home profiles.
That terra server site is awesome ! Thanks for that link !
Just wondering though...Does anyone know where Mount Wilson in Los ANgeles is located ? Is it near BUrbank or Pasadena ? I am trying to find it on the maps on that site but so far cannot find it.